[Vampyr]

We are very soon going to be playing bridge in the US, which means that we will play against at least some people who play Flannery. What I am wondering is -- how often is Flannery psyched? Is it often enough to have a natural 2♥ overcall?

[barmar]

Everyone I know plays that a 2♥ overcall is artificial, typically a hand that would make a takeout double of a 1♥ opening.

Here's a Bridge Winners thread about Flannery defenses. Kit Woolsey suggests using 2♥ as Michaels.

[hrothgar]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-07, 09:38, said:

We are very soon going to be playing bridge in the US, which means that we will play against at least some people who play Flannery. What I am wondering is -- how often is Flannery psyched? Is it often enough to have a natural 2♥ overcall?

Flannery is an artificial bid and may not be psyched.

A more apt question is "How often do folks forget that they agreed to play Flannery?"

(Not enough to want a natural 2♥ overcall is my guess)

[Vampyr]

What happens if you psyche a bid that isn't allowed to be psyched? I assume that forgetting is treated the same way?

[mcphee]

Should you psyche an artificial bid the director tears up your convention card, laughs at you, gives you a massive penalty, and makes you caddy the midnight game.

[Vampyr]

Does this prohibition of psyching an artificial bid apply only below 3NT? Can you, for example, psyche a 4-level splinter? Or does the prohibition apply only to the opening bid?

[mycroft]

GCC, DISALLOWED:

Quote

2. Psyching of artificial or conventional opening bids and/or conventional responses thereto. Psyching conventional suit responses, which are less than 2NT, to natural openings.
3. Psychic controls (Includes ANY partnership agreement which, if used in conjunction with a psychic call, makes allowance for that psych.)

Mid-Chart keeps the psychic control ban, but changes 2 into:

Quote

2. Psyching of artificial opening bids and/or conventional responses thereto.
7. Psyching a conventional agreement which may show fewer than 10 HCP and which is not permitted by the General Convention Chart. This includes psyching responses to or rebids of these methods.

Having got my Life Master at least partially because the opponents forgot Flannery (no TD call; -1100 in 5♦X was enough to swing the match) I would not say that it happens often; but it does happen. OTOH, I've never been burned by it, and have only been called once (after 2♦!-2NT; pass - massive use of UI.)

[rmnka447]

I agree that the issue isn't psyching a Flannery bid but more likely opponents forgetting that Flannery is being played.

Since psyching an artificial bid is verboten, anyone who does so is not only risking not only adjustment of the hand in question, but further disciplinary penalties. That's enough to make such a psyche a virtual non-starter.

[mycroft]

I've never heard of anybody psyching Flannery. Misbidding it...yeah.

Closest I get to "psyching" is "incomplete disclosure" - "please explain" "Flannery" "please explain" "11-15, 4♠-5♥" - but sometimes it's 4-6, and they frequently upgrade 10s (especially when they're 4-6), and, of course, some would never even dream of breaking the 4-5 rule because the responses break if you do that...

But as long as you remember that some play that way, you're golden.

[SteveMoe]

Wouldn't worry about abuse. Frequency not high either.
For defense see: http://bridgewinners...es-to-flannery/ for options.

[Zelandakh]

 mycroft, on 2016-March-07, 18:01, said:

I've never heard of anybody psyching Flannery. Misbidding it...yeah.

If you forget often enough the agreement in effect becomes "6+ diamonds, weak or 4♠5♥ intermediate", which is not allowed. The problem is that almost noone is ever hauled up for this but that does not mean that the description of the opening as Flannery is correct. Note also that informed players who want to psyche Flannery will simply claim afterwards that they had a momentary lapse and there is basically nothing that can be done to show that they are lying.

[Vampyr]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-March-08, 07:22, said:

If you forget often enough the agreement in effect becomes "6+ diamonds, weak or 4♠5♥ intermediate", which is not allowed. The problem is that almost noone is ever hauled up for this but that does not mean that the description of the opening as Flannery is correct. Note also that informed players who want to psyche Flannery will simply claim afterwards that they had a momentary lapse and there is basically nothing that can be done to show that they are lying.

This is why I have also felt that in jurisdiction(s) where psyching a bid is not allowed, forgetting the bid should carry exactly the same penalty. After all, presumably the idea is to protect the opponents, and the effect on them is just the same.

[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 07:46, said:

This is why I have also felt that in jurisdiction(s) where psyching a bid is not allowed, forgetting the bid should carry exactly the same penalty. After all, presumably the idea is to protect the opponents, and the effect on them is just the same.

The difference is rens mea -- unintentional mistakes don't generally result in the same kind of punishment. Like in the real world, we dole out different punishments for premeditated crimes than those that result from negligence or accidents.

[kenberg]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-07, 09:38, said:

We are very soon going to be playing bridge in the US, which means that we will play against at least some people who play Flannery. What I am wondering is -- how often is Flannery psyched? Is it often enough to have a natural 2♥ overcall?

Not to worry.
If you want to think about opponents opening Flannery, here is an issue that is more likely to arise:
Some play that 1♥-1♠ promise five cards. For others (I prefer this), the 1♠ response simply means that opener is free to raise on three cards. Also I am not sure how the alerts go or should go. If players have an agreement that 1♠ promises five, you should expect an alert (I am no authority on the rules, and they are not constant, but I am pretty sure of this). But I had the rather odd interaction at a table once: Partner opened 1♥, I responded 1♠ on my four card suit, we reached, I think, 3NT and, after the dummy came down, my opponent objected to the non-alert. He knew we played Flannery, he also played Flannery, he felt all Flannery players do or should play that 1♠ shows five, so he felt that we should have alerted the 1♠ as possibly being on only four. A bit far-fetched, but perhaps he had a point. The director didn't think so.

A bigger alert issue is when the auction begins 1♥ on your left, 1nt on your right (forcing or not) and then they end in some number of NT with you on lead. If your right hand opponent would often or always skip over a four card spade holding to bid that 1NT, you are probably entitled to an alert but I am not sure that is in the rules. It is true that when not playing Flannery some players sometimes would skip over 1♠ to bid 1NT, but if is systemic that is different. If you are holding, say, four spades and four clubs I am not sure what to lead against a Flannery pair, but you should be given the info that the non-spade bid on your right is not a strong reason to believe that rho has at most three.

Back to psyching/forgetting, I once saw the following: Lho opened 2♦, rho alerted and explained it was five hearts and four spades. Lho held diamonds and intended the 2♦ to show diamonds, as indeed their card said. Lho subsequently bid the hand exactly as if she had never heard the alert, despite the auction getting very weird. They of course landed in an awful contract but it was a fine display of respect for the rules and ethics of the game.

Btw, i prefer a weak 2♦ and I am far from the only one here who does. But yes, you will encounter Flannery.

[rmnka447]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 07:46, said:

This is why I have also felt that in jurisdiction(s) where psyching a bid is not allowed, forgetting the bid should carry exactly the same penalty. After all, presumably the idea is to protect the opponents, and the effect on them is just the same.

I've certainly forgot on occasion that we were playing Flannery because I play with a number of partners. Each plays something different, so there's no common bidding agreements.

And then there was the time, I looked at my hand with 5 ♠, 4 ♥ and had a brain short circuit that came up with "That's a Flannery hand". So I bid 2 ♦ and had to table my hand when partner ended up playing 2 ♥ on a 4-3 fit instead of 2 ♠ on a 5-3 fit.

As long as forgetting the agreements is an honest memory lapse, it's hard to penalize it. Just like if you erroneously pullout 3 NT instead of 3 ♠ raising partner and don't realize you've done it fast enough to correct. If it happens that 3 NT and 4 ♠ both make 4, that's a rub of the green situation as is 4 ♠ making 4 and 3 NT going down 3.

[Vampyr]

 rmnka447, on 2016-March-08, 11:46, said:

I've certainly forgot on occasion that we were playing Flannery because I play with a number of partners. Each plays something different, so there's no common bidding agreements.

And then there was the time, I looked at my hand with 5 ♠, 4 ♥ and had a brain short circuit that came up with "That's a Flannery hand". So I bid 2 ♦ and had to table my hand when partner ended up playing 2 ♥ on a 4-3 fit instead of 2 ♠ on a 5-3 fit.

As long as forgetting the agreements is an honest memory lapse, it's hard to penalize it. Just like if you erroneously pullout 3 NT instead of 3 ♠ raising partner and don't realize you've done it fast enough to correct. If it happens that 3 NT and 4 ♠ both make 4, that's a rub of the green situation as is 4 ♠ making 4 and 3 NT going down 3.

Mispulls are an entirely different matter.

[Vampyr]

Looking for ACBL system regulations with no luck. Can anyone provide a link?

EDIT Have found a defensive database, though. I understand that I can print it out and refer to it if my opponents use any of the methods listed? What if there are several defenses offered -- how will I know which one partner is using?

EDIT again: have found the charts, have also found them not to be super clear. For instance, a 3NT opener showing SAT in a major -- I am particularly interested in this one because I understand it is not allowed on the GCC. When I am allowed to play this, must I devise a defense and have it available in writing?

[rmnka447]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 14:47, said:

Looking for ACBL system regulations with no luck. Can anyone provide a link?

EDIT Have found a defensive database, though. I understand that I can print it out and refer to it if my opponents use any of the methods listed? What if there are several defenses offered -- how will I know which one partner is using?

EDIT again: have found the charts, have also found them not to be super clear. For instance, a 3NT opener showing SAT in a major -- I am particularly interested in this one because I understand it is not allowed on the GCC. When I am allowed to play this, must I devise a defense and have it available in writing?

I'm no expert either, but items allowed by the GCC are playable in virtually all tournaments(Sectionals, Regionals, Nationals [North American Bridge Championships {NABC}]) and club games.

Midchart items are typically only allowed in unlimited MP events at the nationals, regionally rated Flight A (unlimited MP) events at the nationals, and, at the discretion of the organizers in regionals in the top KO brackets or Flight A (unlimited MP) events. For instance, we played in a KO top bracket final a couple years at a regional tournament, our opponents were playing Multi 2 ♦. They had to pre-alert it before the round started providing a written explanation and written suggested defenses. My partner and I were allowed to choose one of the defenses and refer to the write ups during the auction. Likewise, in January, we played against a pair in a KO 2nd Bracket (approx. 1500-2500 MP per player average) and they were playing a complicated bidding system based on a Strong ♣ with Strong 2 ♣, 2 ♦ for major hands and varying NT ranges. They also provided a pre-alert on what they were playing although I don't recall if they had any defenses laid out.

Basically, the ACBL will allow more unusual bidding agreements against better players with proper explanations/awareness of those methods. But they want to protect newer and more modestly talented players from having those methods sprung upon them.

If you're unsure exactly what will be required, you could contact the ACBL and ask if they are allowed, when they can played, and what is required to play them. They are usually pretty responsive to those kinds of requests. It probably wouldn't hurt to reconfirm what's allowed and required when you get to the events that you want to play in with the TDs.

Club games have pretty wide latitude as what they will allow. Depending on the club, you might or might not be allowed to play any Midchart methods.

[Vampyr]

We are going to the Nationals. I am hoping that we won't have to play under the Midchart, as we won't be playing in any limited events. But maybe the Superchart is available less often than I am assuming.

In any case, do you know who it is I should contact?

[hrothgar]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 19:09, said:

We are going to the Nationals. I am hoping that we won't have to play under the Midchart, as we won't be playing in any limited events. But maybe the Superchart is available less often than I am assuming.

In any case, do you know who it is I should contact?

The Superchart really only gets used in the Vanderbilt and the like.

The overwhelming majority of events will be GCC.