[smerriman]

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I got a bit confused when Gib bid my queen. What was it trying to tell me?

(I believe this was in one of the birthday tournaments, whichever version of Gib was used in those.)

[WesleyC]

It's common for the 5♠ to show either the ♠Q OR undisclosed extra length. It looks like GIB had evaluated based on that.

On this deal, North knows his side is in at least a 10 card fit so even missing the ♠Q there's about a 90% chance of no spade loser.

[smerriman]

WesleyC, on 2016-April-28, 01:33, said:

It's common for the 5♠ to show either the ♠Q OR undisclosed extra length. It looks like GIB had evaluated based on that.

On this deal, North knows his side is in at least a 10 card fit so even missing the ♠Q there's about a 90% chance of no spade loser.

Ah yep, that makes sense. Thanks.

[lycier]

Gib, good job !

[1eyedjack]

Yes it assumes, perhaps reasonably although not underwritten by Lloyds, that South has the Ace, without which knowledge of the Queen is somewhat more relevant than the extra length (unless you have 2 extra I guess).

[lycier]

Of course, I am very glad to see such hand.
In fact, it was discussed on this forum in the past..
It seems that the programers have taken note of and fix such type of problems.
So here we have to say : Gib, good job !

[Lovera]

The problem that we are talking and seeing perhaps can be considered (if as work-in-progress) in amplied manner : when a convention must be tested, it being spade the highest suit, in first step is ok but subsequently needs to consider the case of other suits involved in bidding. In this case if spade and heart suits are traded what is the answer if is started 4NT ?

[johnu]

Lovera, on 2016-May-01, 02:16, said:

The problem that we are talking and seeing perhaps can be considered (if as work-in-progress) in amplied manner : when a convention must be tested, it being spade the highest suit, in first step is ok but subsequently needs to consider the case of other suits involved in bidding. In this case if spade and heart suits are traded what is the answer if is started 4NT ?

GIB does not play kickback RKC Blackwood and IIRC, all responses are the same no matter what the trump suit is.

[Lovera]

johnu, on 2016-May-01, 12:18, said:

GIB does not play kickback RKC Blackwood and IIRC, all responses are the same no matter what the trump suit is.

My interrogatif was pleonastic: infact with heart agree trump the answer is ( the same ) 5♠ than forcing 6♥ now and we are off contract (that is the point).

[johnu]

Lovera, on 2016-May-01, 13:34, said:

My interrogatif was pleonastic: infact with heart agree trump the answer is ( the same ) 5♠ than forcing 6♥ now and we are off contract (that is the point).

If you don't play Kickback (and Kickback needs some discussion to avoid disasters), you always have the problem of getting too high depending on the trump suit. The vast majority of players don't play Kickback. Don't use Blackwood if you can't handle the response. If you are off 2 keycards after a 2 keycard + trump queen response, why were you taking control of the auction with only 1 keycard? And that's the point.

[Lovera]

johnu, on 2016-May-01, 14:01, said:

If you don't play Kickback (and Kickback needs some discussion to avoid disasters), you always have the problem of getting too high depending on the trump suit. The vast majority of players don't play Kickback. Don't use Blackwood if you can't handle the response. If you are off 2 keycards after a 2 keycard + trump queen response, why were you taking control of the auction with only 1 keycard? And that's the point.

Hi johnu: here we are talking about the same cards and bidding in post #1 with the difference that spade and heart are inverted than 4NT is "Blackwood [H]" now (instead of "Blackwood [S] by smarriman as explanation of 4NT).

[Stefan_O]

Lovera, on 2016-May-01, 13:34, said:

My interrogatif was pleonastic: infact with heart agree trump the answer is ( the same ) 5♠ than forcing 6♥ now and we are off contract (that is the point).

Yes, it can be an issue if ♥ is trumps and the 4NT-bidder has trump-queen himself and only 1 ace,
i.e. he wants to be in slam only when pd has 3 Aces (but not 2 aces + extra trump length).

So consequently, if you play this method and want go the safe way, he should not bid 4NT but quebid instead, and let his pd take command.

[1eyedjack]

Swap the majors in the hand at post 1 and it goes
1H-3S-4H-P
Opener had an opportunity to cue below game and declined to do so. So no incentive to RKCB whether kickback or standard.
On the actual hand post 1 we do not have that info although 4S is discouraging but more vague.

I can't remember getting too high with standard RKCB when Hearts are trump and 5S is responded with no slam on.

But the issue gets more pronounced the lower ranking the trump suit. GIB uses 4N as RKCB with Clubs as trump (and seldom uses any other slam try). And THAT I think is a big issue.

[lycier]

1eyedjack, on 2016-May-01, 22:13, said:

Swap the majors in the hand at post 1 and it goes
1H-3S-4H-P
Opener had an opportunity to cue below game and declined to do so. So no incentive to RKCB whether kickback or standard.
On the actual hand post 1 we do not have that info although 4S is discouraging but more vague.

I can't remember getting too high with standard RKCB when Hearts are trump and 5S is responded with no slam on.

But the issue gets more pronounced the lower ranking the trump suit. GIB uses 4N as RKCB with Clubs as trump (and seldom uses any other slam try). And THAT I think is a big issue.

Very good reply.
Here I will prove 1eyedjack' s point is correct.
So I would make a analog hand at first according to post #1, and swap the majors.

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Result : 4♥N+1

Then I would seat south and bid 3♠ to make a splinter raise and 4N , now let's see how does Gib answer RKCB.

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Result : 6♥N-1


Gib really answer 5♠ even when ♥ is as trumph, so it is a big issue.
Many thanks to 1eyedjack.

[1eyedjack]

The problem may be in the decision by South to move over 4H rather than the failure to use kickback.. Trouble is, we cannot replicate what GIB would do faced with that decision because we now know that it would never be faced with that decision as it would respond 2N rather than 3S. With which I have a lot of sympathy.

[Lovera]

My intervention on this topic about argoument is that situation has happened to myself once in the same way yet if with better cards by my partner (that had two Aces). When i was reading indications to solve i think that is get round problem without solving but instead moving the point. It needs, i think, as few as possible to change bidding remaining with convention used (by GIB or with a common/random partner). As it to say : GIB converts information by splinter in 10-card fit for the RKB bidding 5♠ and, although, is already at this level the problem. That, when doesn't occur it(=splinter and four cards support) allows (if the case) to play at the "safe" fifth level. I infact suggested that in bidding of this type, with minimal informations by partner starting 4NT and with heart suit agree only plus an Ace and King of heart "to lie" about longness in trump so to bid 5♥ instead 5♠ (see my topic "Slam bidding from Relaxed Club" in Interesting Bridge Hands).

[johnu]

lycier, on 2016-May-01, 23:10, said:

Then I would seat south and bid 3♠ to make a splinter raise and 4N , now let's see how does Gib answer RKCB.

A big LOL for GIBs bid of 5NT showing all the keycards, even though missing 2. Maybe GIB bid 5NT and folded up his cards and crossed his arms expecting partner to figure out that 5NT was to play.

In the distant past before the advent of Kickback, 5♠ when possible in this type of sequence asked responder to bid 5NT. I'm not sure if this is still being taught to new players.