[Jinksy]

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This cost us several IMPs in the JEC match even before we royally carved the defence. So, IMP teams. Who gets it in the neck?

[kenberg]

I cannot see N doubling 3D unless there has been a discussion along the lines of "A double here would allow for the possibility that you have a weak 2S hand". I suppose S could have doubled 3D but I don't really think so. Presumably N would bid 4C in that case. Maybe 3S over 3D is right, but I think you are just stuck.

I am definitely not opening the S hand 3S. Whatever my reason was for not having a weak 2S available I am not going to let it screw up my 3S bids as well.

[eagles123]

what were souths options in terms of opening bid

[SteveMoe]

Can't see why South didn't bid 3♠ at their second turn. North rates to have 2-4 cards there, not to mention 0/1 ♦.

[Jinksy]

eagles123, on 2016-October-08, 16:12, said:

what were souths options in terms of opening bid

Weak NT, 10-13 point 2-bids, stronger 1-bids.

[antonylee]

3♠ over 3♦ seems about normal? Especially if you can't open these hands...

[Phil]

I think you need to bid 3S here. Partner has short or semi short diamonds but might not be able to reopen.

Always remember the line, "sometimes it's too dangerous to pass".

[mr1303]

If you can't open 2S you have to open 3S.

3S on the second turn sounds fit showing to me.

[rmnka447]

Another vote for 3 ♠ by South in the second round.

If they have a fit, you should have a fit. At worst, partner should have tolerance for ♠ especially being marked with a doubleton ♦ at most. You already limited your hand by passing. So, what can you have by bidding 3 ♠ but a weak 2 ♠ equivalent. If partner pulls 3 ♠ to 4 ♣, you'll have a pretty good dummy.

[Jinksy]

mr1303, on 2016-October-08, 23:11, said:

3S on the second turn sounds fit showing to me.

This is what I would have assumed without discussion. As a general heuristic it feels like passed hands that suddenly come in at the 3-level or higher would be fit, though 2-level bids can probably get away with being a constructive max pass.

I'd be curious if people can offer a good modification of the heuristic, or a clear reason about why it shouldn't apply here.

[MrAce]

Jinksy, on 2016-October-09, 04:38, said:

This is what I would have assumed without discussion. As a general heuristic it feels like passed hands that suddenly come in at the 3-level or higher would be fit, though 2-level bids can probably get away with being a constructive max pass.

That is true but not for systems which disallows certain openings such as 2♠ in your case.
It is simply ridiculous to shut the guy both with opening and in his later attempt with fit requirements.

[mike777]

Jinksy, on 2016-October-08, 14:50, said:

---

This cost us several IMPs in the JEC match even before we royally carved the defence. So, IMP teams. Who gets it in the neck?

Other


South seems to have a normal 2s opener, not sure what the issue is here.


north bids 4s wtp?

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If south is not allowed to bid 2s....ok tell us your system bid then.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2016-October-09, 06:31, said:

Other


South seems to have a normal 2s opener, not sure what the issue is here.


north bids 4s wtp?

------


If south is not allowed to bid 2s....ok tell us your system bid then.

If you actually bother to read the thread this is all explained, looks like Fantunes, so the 2 bids are 10-13, 1 bids 14+ and there is no system bid for this.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

no blame, or blame the system.

If you cant open, why should you get in as South
in a possible misfit auction.
Does 3H promise spades?
You could argue, they have a fit, I have diamond
length, ergo partner has spades, but enough to keep
you out of trouble, when they?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Phil]

Jinksy, on 2016-October-09, 04:38, said:

This is what I would have assumed without discussion. As a general heuristic it feels like passed hands that suddenly come in at the 3-level or higher would be fit, though 2-level bids can probably get away with being a constructive max pass.

I'd be curious if people can offer a good modification of the heuristic, or a clear reason about why it shouldn't apply here.

Your 'heuristics' sort of go out the window when you don't have a call available on the first round that 99.5% of partnerships have.

Note: We use 2♦ as multi in our Fantunes set-up. Its nice to be able to open at the 2 level when we have a weak 2 and while there are pros and cons to multi, it fits well in the structure.

Our philosophy is that opening a 10-13 2 bid with a side four card major is kind of dangerous so we don't do it, so 2♦ can only be diamonds or diamonds and side clubs, so its something of a waste anyway.