[Tramticket]

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The next board in your 24 Board knock-out teams match.

1. What is your call at this turn?
2. What is your plan?

[Cyberyeti]

Most people have an agreed method for dealing with a big minor 2 suiter along side leaping michaels to deal with minor/other major, I use that.

[Zelandakh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2017-June-30, 01:51, said:

Most people have an agreed method for dealing with a big minor 2 suiter along side leaping michaels to deal with minor/other major, I use that.

Do you not have 2 ranges though, such as 4NT for an ordinary minor 2-suiter and 3♥ followed by something "impossible" (4M/4NT depending on auction and agreement) for hands too strong for an immediate 4NT?

[The_Badger]

Without any specific agreement, double seems a good (but awkward) starting place. Your strength compensates for that pathetic ♠ doubleton. There's no guarantee that partner has a minor suit fit. Where the auction heads from there is anyone's guess, but you'd be damn unlucky to end up in a 4-2♠ fit, although that is a possibility.

[mike777]

Good quiz

I will try double at this vul with north silent sounds as if pard may have 4 or 5hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

 Zelandakh, on 2017-June-30, 03:02, said:

Do you not have 2 ranges though, such as 4NT for an ordinary minor 2-suiter and 3♥ followed by something "impossible" (4M/4NT depending on auction and agreement) for hands too strong for an immediate 4NT?

Because we play LM, 3♥/4m is single suited, we don't make a 2 suited bid with an ordinary 2 suiter, we only bid the strong one through it.

[rmnka447]

4 ♣

I play Roman Jump Overcalls in all positions with my partners over weak 2s only.

So, 4 ♣ shows strong 2 suiter in ♣ and ♦ (suit bid and next higher unbid suit). For other strong 2 suiters, 4 ♦ shows ♦ and ♠, 3 ♠ shows ♠ and ♣.

[7897]

Think 3♥

[msjennifer]

 rmnka447, on 2017-June-30, 17:35, said:

4 ♣

I play Roman Jump Overcalls in all positions with my partners over weak 2s only.

So, 4 ♣ shows strong 2 suiter in ♣ and ♦ (suit bid and next higher unbid suit). For other strong 2 suiters, 4 ♦ shows ♦ and ♠, 3 ♠ shows ♠ and ♣.

We ,too,play these Jump overcalls,as described by you.
An interesting problem is,suppose RHO passes,you open 2C how do you bid over partners 2D response?

[nekthen]

Not saying its the greatest, but for me 3♥ is michaels. 4N is STRONG weaker hands i will start with 3♦

[Stephen Tu]

I think most common is:
3H cue = ask stopper for 3nt usually with a running minor
4m = 5+m 5+OM (leaping michaels)
4nt = minors, good hand but not this good
4H = minors and stronger than 4nt would be, so this hand should easily qualify.

[Zelandakh]

 Stephen Tu, on 2017-July-04, 02:55, said:

I think most common is:
3H cue = ask stopper for 3nt usually with a running minor
4m = 5+m 5+OM (leaping michaels)
4nt = minors, good hand but not this good
4H = minors and stronger than 4nt would be, so this hand should easily qualify.

What are 3♥ followed by 4♥/4♠/4NT in your view? Does it not make some sense for one of these to be the "bigger minors" hand and for 4♥ to be stronger then 4m with ♠ and a minor? This is really the point I was trying to open for discussion earlier with CY. The exact sequence is in the end less important then deciding if there are going to be 2 tiers of hands and, if so, where the boundary ought to lie.

[Tramticket]

 Stephen Tu, on 2017-July-04, 02:55, said:

I think most common is:
3H cue = ask stopper for 3nt usually with a running minor
4m = 5+m 5+OM (leaping michaels)
4nt = minors, good hand but not this good
4H = minors and stronger than 4nt would be, so this hand should easily qualify.

We had agreed to play this structure. But partner is less experienced and after the previous hand, I didn't fancy playing in 4NT 2 hands running. I tried 3♦ and was left to play a lay-down grand slam in a part score.

Oops.

[Tramticket]

 Zelandakh, on 2017-July-04, 03:45, said:

What are 3♥ followed by 4♥/4♠/4NT in your view? Does it not make some sense for one of these to be the "bigger minors" hand and for 4♥ to be stronger then 4m with ♠ and a minor? This is really the point I was trying to open for discussion earlier with CY. The exact sequence is in the end less important then deciding if there are going to be 2 tiers of hands and, if so, where the boundary ought to lie.

I like this idea. I was playing with an "improving" player on this occasion, so such complications were not on the radar.

I guess that with the standard running suit type hand, we are not moving over 3NT, 4♣ or 4♦ - so these bids are available. What if partner jumps to 5♣/ 5♦?

[Cyberyeti]

 Zelandakh, on 2017-July-04, 03:45, said:

What are 3♥ followed by 4♥/4♠/4NT in your view? Does it not make some sense for one of these to be the "bigger minors" hand and for 4♥ to be stronger then 4m with ♠ and a minor? This is really the point I was trying to open for discussion earlier with CY. The exact sequence is in the end less important then deciding if there are going to be 2 tiers of hands and, if so, where the boundary ought to lie.

It's more complicated than that, there are other hand types to deal with.

Massive single suited spades, too good for 3/4♠ where you don't want partner to pass a double
Really big 3 suited with void heart where partner will pass the X wrongly too often
Massive single suited minor

As well as the minor 2 suiters

Admittedly you won't hear further from the opps very often, but you don't want a structure where you get screwed over if you do.

[Zelandakh]

 Tramticket, on 2017-July-04, 04:14, said:

I guess that with the standard running suit type hand, we are not moving over 3NT, 4♣ or 4♦ - so these bids are available. What if partner jumps to 5♣/ 5♦?

Before we come to that we need to talk about Advancer's calls. I would argue that jumps to 5 of a minor should be rather special hands, particularly 5♦. Hands with a stopper are usually going to bid NT and very weak hands without 4♣. 4♦ might then be a relay with better hands asking Overcaller to describe further. Of course other structures are also possible. We might use 4♦ as a ParadoX advance with good clubs, or naturally with diamonds. Whatever the base structure, I think 5m has to be rather specific. We should not be leaping about here with great hands but instead advancing 4♦ or 4♥ on those. So if partner does jump, I think we ought to be in a good position to know what to do.

[nige1]

 Tramticket, on 2017-June-30, 01:25, said:

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Assuming we play Lebensohl, after (2♥) Pass (Pass) ??, I rank

• Double = T/O. Misdescriptive. But we have lots of space for exploration and this keeps Penalty, 3N and 4♠ in the picture.
• 4♥ = ART. Strong minor 2-suiter. Less messy than double. Descriptive, consultative, and simple.
• 4N = ART. Minor 2-suiter. Apart from options 1-3, nothing else really appeals, e.g.
• 3♥ = ART. Stop-ask. Staymanic.. Misdescriptive.
• 3m = NAT. But NF. So dangerous.
• 4m = NAT. Leaping Michales, So misdescriptive,
• 5m = NAT. Committal and unilateral.