[Cyberyeti]

rmnka447, on 2017-August-01, 17:17, said:

Would a 3 ♦ bid be forcing or would it just be a preference for one of responder's suits with a minimum hand?

If it's forcing, then after 3 ♦, a further ♥ rebid ought to show a hand that's something like 6-4 in the reds and is better than a simple 3 ♥ rebid.

If it's a just preference, then you have to have some way of showing extras and that would probably be double unless you specifically agree on something else.

This bidding situation is the kind of thing that you work out as you develop a partnership. I'm not sure there are any right or wrong answers, just what you agree with your partner and what works for you as a pair.

3♦ I suspect is just competing the partscore.

[rhm]

Obviously 4♥ should be limited, that is a good opening bid with a respectable 7 card suit, just too strong to open 4♥, but not much in reserve.
That leaves DBL and 4♣ for stronger hands.
4♣ should show a strong hand, which can not stand partner passing your takeout DBL, invariably short in clubs, say a void in clubs or freak distribution say 6 hearts, 5 spades and a singleton club.
DBL is the normal bid for strong hands even with a singleton club.
At least that seems to be the way the Italians are bidding.
I would double
For example if this is matchpoints and partner bids 3NT I would pass.

Rainer Herrmann

[Kapi Blas]

Even if you have no agreements in this sequence 4♥ is a horrible bid. It should show like a minimum hand with 7-8♥. These are the rebids i use in my partnership in this sequence:

Pas - forcing since my partners double should be showing some values
Dbl - obviously not penalty, our oponents found their long suit, showing extra values
3♦ - 5-5 shape
3♥ - 6♥ minimum
3♠ - asks for ♣ stoper
3NT - ♣ stoper, not minimum, with stonger hand and a stoper you should double
4♣ - Splinter strong hand, pretty much promises 6♥
4♦ - very strong hand with 6+♥, almost ACOL, no ♣ shortage
4♥ - 7-8♥ minimum hand, too strong to open 4♥( we open 4M with even 7 HCP)

[Cyberyeti]

Kapi Blas, on 2017-August-06, 02:40, said:

Even if you have no agreements in this sequence 4♥ is a horrible bid. It should show like a minimum hand with 7-8♥. These are the rebids i use in my partnership in this sequence:

Pas - forcing since my partners double should be showing some values
Dbl - obviously not penalty, our oponents found their long suit, showing extra values
3♦ - 5-5 shape
3♥ - 6♥ minimum
3♠ - asks for ♣ stoper
3NT - ♣ stoper, not minimum, with stonger hand and a stoper you should double
4♣ - Splinter strong hand, pretty much promises 6♥
4♦ - very strong hand with 6+♥, almost ACOL, no ♣ shortage
4♥ - 7-8♥ minimum hand, too strong to open 4♥( we open 4M with even 7 HCP)

P cannot be forcing sensibly, why would you want to force partner to bid on a possible misfit with 11 opposite 8.

[Kapi Blas]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-August-06, 04:24, said:

P cannot be forcing sensibly, why would you want to force partner to bid on a possible misfit with 11 opposite 8.

I don't think misfit can be the case in this situation because opponents have 8 card suit at least so we will find ours surely. The second thing is I play this double as 10+ HCP with at least 5-4 in unbid suits with no fit or any 12+ balanced and that's why i'm considering this pass as forcing since we are having strength advantage.

[Cyberyeti]

Kapi Blas, on 2017-August-06, 05:18, said:

I don't think misfit can be the case in this situation because opponents have 8 card suit at least so we will find ours surely. The second thing is I play this double as 10+ HCP with at least 5-4 in unbid suits with no fit or any 12+ balanced and that's why i'm considering this pass as forcing since we are having strength advantage.

Which double ?

1♥-(2♣)-X as 10+ you're getting stolen from a lot, I need to X on a 4243 8. Also the heart is 4+ cards not 5 in the Acol type system I play, so the shape restricions you play don't work as well.

Ops 8 card fit is no guarantee we have one, also we probably open lighter than you do.

[Kapi Blas]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-August-06, 06:23, said:

Which double ?

1♥-(2♣)-X as 10+ you're getting stolen from a lot, I need to X on a 4243 8. Also the heart is 4+ cards not 5 in the Acol type system I play, so the shape restricions you play don't work as well.

Ops 8 card fit is no guarantee we have one, also we probably open lighter than you do.

Well obviously in ACOL system it must work differently. But im not really getting stolen though. If we don't have a major suit fit and i don't have any other long suit and less than 10 HCP im ok with passing while vulnerable. Not vulnerable ill just bid any 5 card suit on 2 level with 6+ HCP and good shape.

[GrahamJson]

Kapi Blas, on 2017-August-06, 02:40, said:

Even if you have no agreements in this sequence 4♥ is a horrible bid. It should show like a minimum hand with 7-8♥. These are the rebids i use in my partnership in this sequence:

Pas - forcing since my partners double should be showing some values
Dbl - obviously not penalty, our oponents found their long suit, showing extra values
3♦ - 5-5 shape
3♥ - 6♥ minimum
3♠ - asks for ♣ stoper
3NT - ♣ stoper, not minimum, with stonger hand and a stoper you should double
4♣ - Splinter strong hand, pretty much promises 6♥
4♦ - very strong hand with 6+♥, almost ACOL, no ♣ shortage
4♥ - 7-8♥ minimum hand, too strong to open 4♥( we open 4M with even 7 HCP)

Maybe you get dealt better hands than I seem to get, but you seem to be using lots of bids to show big hands. For me, 3D and 3S would just be competing.

Like another poster I have sympathy with the 4H bidder, especially if playing with a partner with whom you have no detailed agreements.

[Cyberyeti]

GrahamJson, on 2017-August-09, 10:03, said:

Like another poster I have sympathy with the 4H bidder, especially if playing with a partner with whom you have no detailed agreements.

We've played together for 20+ years, while we have no specific agreements in this sequence, the general principle that big hands bid slowly is well established.