[VixTD]

barmar, on 2018-January-17, 17:38, said:

The question isn't whether the lead checker is a good feature, but whether it's OK for it to report the error before the end of the hand, when you're entering the result and the opponent is confirming it.

Yes, but my point is that sometimes the usefulness is so great that it outweighs the disadvantages.

[Vampyr]

VixTD, on 2018-January-22, 07:53, said:

Yes, but my point is that sometimes the usefulness is so great that it outweighs the disadvantages.

I cannot imagine circumstances under which this would be the case. If the boards are somehow incorrect or whatever, you can wait until the first hand had been completed.

[BudH]

Vampyr, on 2018-January-22, 09:12, said:

I cannot imagine circumstances under which this would be the case. If the boards are somehow incorrect or whatever, you can wait until the first hand had been completed.

If you really think this is a big concern, then disable the feature to allow the players (only in the current round) to change a result (contract, declarer, opening lead, result) after being entered and accepted by opponents. It isn't that big an inconvenience for the Director. In my case, I find most of the time the players are not correcting it themselves and are calling me over. The only difference for me correcting it is I don't need to enter the Director confirmation code.

I do think it is valuable to have all of the following enabled:

1. Opening lead entry
2. Hand record uploaded to the Bridgemates
3. Opening lead checked to be in declarer's LHO's hand
4. Suspicious contract detection feature (can be set for double dummy check within a chosen number of tricks and/or total tricks from NS and EW if the same denomination is declared in each direction within a chosen number of tricks)

[pran]

BudH, on 2018-January-23, 09:03, said:

If you really think this is a big concern, then disable the feature to allow the players (only in the current round) to change a result (contract, declarer, opening lead, result) after being entered and accepted by opponents. It isn't that big an inconvenience for the Director. In my case, I find most of the time the players are not correcting it themselves and are calling me over. The only difference for me correcting it is I don't need to enter the Director confirmation code.

I do think it is valuable to have all of the following enabled:

1. Opening lead entry
2. Hand record uploaded to the Bridgemates
3. Opening lead checked to be in declarer's LHO's hand
4. Suspicious contract detection feature (can be set for double dummy check within a chosen number of tricks and/or total tricks from NS and EW if the same denomination is declared in each direction within a chosen number of tricks)

1: agree
2: disagree
3 and 4: agree, but not at the table - within the scoring program only

The players at the table should not receive any information during the round that the information they have entered is in any way special, questionable, advantageous or disadvantageous to either side.

[barmar]

There's a reason why these should be (and are) settable options. The security needs for a tournament are different from a club game.

[BudH]

pran, on 2018-January-23, 09:39, said:

1: agree
2: disagree
3 and 4: agree, but not at the table - within the scoring program only

The players at the table should not receive any information during the round that the information they have entered is in any way special, questionable, advantageous or disadvantageous to either side.

On #2, the hand record is in no way accessible to the players, especially if you do NOT allow the players to self-correct a contract/declarer/opening lead/result. It is used solely to check the opening lead is in declarer's LHO's hand.

On #3, the players only learn the input opening lead is not in the LHO's hand of the declarer input into the Bridgemate unit when E/W attempt to approve the contract/declarer/opening lead/result. A score correction cannot occur without the Director's knowledge if you are not allowing player corrections during the same round.

On #4, only the Director at his computer can see if one or more tables has input a suspicious result. While ensuring nobody can see his computer screen, he can check the result(s) flagged as possibly suspicious. If necessary, he can check the entered score is correct. Often, you know immediately the error and why it was flagged.

That being the case, it sounds like you would agree on all of them.

I can't stress enough STRONGLY encouraging North to enter ALL possible information (contract, declarer, and especially the opening lead) immediately after the opening lead.

[pran]

BudH, on 2018-January-23, 10:49, said:

On #2, the hand record is in no way accessible to the players, especially if you do NOT allow the players to self-correct a contract/declarer/opening lead/result. It is used solely to check the opening lead is in declarer's LHO's hand.

On #3, the players only learn the input opening lead is not in the LHO's hand of the declarer input into the Bridgemate unit when E/W attempt to approve the contract/declarer/opening lead/result. A score correction cannot occur without the Director's knowledge if you are not allowing player corrections during the same round.

On #4, only the Director at his computer can see if one or more tables has input a suspicious result. While ensuring nobody can see his computer screen, he can check the result(s) flagged as possibly suspicious. If necessary, he can check the entered score is correct. Often, you know immediately the error and why it was flagged.

That being the case, it sounds like you would agree on all of them.

I can't stress enough STRONGLY encouraging North to enter ALL possible information (contract, declarer, and especially the opening lead) immediately after the opening lead.

Provided no information of a lead card error is revealed to the players at the table until after the final score at that table has been entered and confirmed (and cannot subsequently be changed by the players) yes, I agree.

I even stress North to enter the board number before any player removes his cards from that board. Ever seen the message: "You are not supposed to play this board in this round" (or similar)?

[blackshoe]

I see that occasionally. I know how to fix it. :-)

Note: our bridgemates tell us what the board number is supposed to be. In normal circumstances, no entry is necessary.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2018-January-23, 16:38, said:

I see that occasionally. I know how to fix it. :-)

Note: our bridgemates tell us what the board number is supposed to be. In normal circumstances, no entry is necessary.

Depending on settings in Bridgemate Control - true.

We play barometer movements with the same set of boards played during the same round at all tables.
(In the first round all tables typically play boards 1 thru 3 and so on.)
We often begin the round with different boards at different tables and must type in that board number.
The following boards in the round are then suggested (!) by the Bridgemate, but we can always override that suggestion.

[BudH]

pran, on 2018-January-24, 02:27, said:

Depending on settings in Bridgemate Control - true.

We play barometer movements with the same set of boards played during the same round at all tables.
(In the first round all tables typically play boards 1 thru 3 and so on.)
We often begin the round with different boards at different tables and must type in that board number.
The following boards in the round are then suggested (!) by the Bridgemate, but we can always override that suggestion.

One reason why, when two tables are sharing boards, you want the two Norths to be players who will pay attention and change to the correct board number when necessary. (The Bridgemate screen warns about playing boards out of order, as a precaution, which in this case is OK at one of the sharing tables.)

[barmar]

BudH, on 2018-January-23, 10:49, said:

On #2, the hand record is in no way accessible to the players, especially if you do NOT allow the players to self-correct a contract/declarer/opening lead/result. It is used solely to check the opening lead is in declarer's LHO's hand.

Bridge Tabs has an option to show the hand record and par results after the score is confirmed.

We've turned this off in our club because it was making post-mortems even longer. But we still have the traveller display enabled.

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2018-January-24, 11:16, said:

We've turned this off in our club because it was making post-mortems even longer. But we still have the traveller display enabled.

The solution to the PM problem is easy, Barry. Just extend the length of the round by thirty minutes or so.

[Vampyr]

BudH, on 2018-January-23, 09:03, said:

If you really think this is a big concern, then disable the feature to allow the players (only in the current round) to change a result (contract, declarer, opening lead, result) after being entered and accepted by opponents.

I do not think that this is a possible setting.

[barmar]

Vampyr, on 2018-January-24, 20:08, said:

I do not think that this is a possible setting.

What isn't possible? Changing an accepted result without the director's intervention, or disabling that feature?

Even if there's no explicit setting, the director could just make the TD PIN well known to the club (e.g. set it to something simple like 0000).