[ggwhiz]

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71% on BridgeWinners thought this was an auto 1♣ opening in 1st chair.

Reverse the rounds suits and I have some sympathy but not a lot. BTW, it was all vul but I don't know if it was imps or mp's.

[Tramticket]

ggwhiz, on 2018-April-26, 12:31, said:

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71% on BridgeWinners thought this was an auto 1♣ opening in 1st chair.

Reverse the rounds suits and I have some sympathy but not a lot. BTW, it was all vul but I don't know if it was imps or mp's.

Its an auto 1NT for me!

[steve2005]

IMPS/MP makes huge difference.
The people I know open all 12 hcp hands no matter how bad. Often bidding weak 1N
Passing 12 hcp bds on average gives bad results. Not saying perfect solution.

[Phil]

The war is over and the passers lost.

Its considered winning bridge in 2018 to open hands like this.

[cherdano]

It's not even a bad 12 count. AQ and KQ.

[FelicityR]

Despite the balanced shape and lack of intermediates I would open this hand not because it has 12HCPs but due to the fact it has 2 and a 1/2 quick tricks.

[gszes]

well shoot I guess bridge is leaving me behind at warp speed. Not the worst 12 count in history but 1c has almost nothing going for it.
1. no lead direction
2. no source of tricks
3. average- defensive values
4. 4333
5. This would make for a great drury response if p happens to open 1M.
6. 1c offers essentially zero preemptive value if playing a weak NT at least we get that
7. At least give me 3 tens and nines to make opening this more palatable. (see I'm not that far behind)
8. Swap the dia J for a major small card and now it looks a ton better. (see I'm not that far behind)

We do have 4 spades so there is a plus side

[ggwhiz]

It was an ATB hand.

After 1♣ - p - 1♠ - 2♥ opener volunteered 2♠ and responder got dumped on for bidding 4♠ over 3♥ with something like a 4-1-4-4 11 count with their "club fit" of QJTx.

[Phil]

ggwhiz, on 2018-April-26, 16:17, said:

It was an ATB hand.

After 1♣ - p - 1♠ - 2♥ opener volunteered 2♠ and responder got dumped on for bidding 4♠ over 3♥ with something like a 4-1-4-4 11 count with their "club fit" of QJTx.

This is just the cost of doing business.

Opener had KQx in their suit opposite the stiff. Can't do a lot about that.

Note this had very little to do with the opening style.

[MrAce]

gszes, on 2018-April-26, 14:32, said:

well shoot I guess bridge is leaving me behind at warp speed. Not the worst 12 count in history but 1c has almost nothing going for it.
1. no lead direction
2. no source of tricks
3. average- defensive values
4. 4333
5. This would make for a great drury response if p happens to open 1M.
6. 1c offers essentially zero preemptive value if playing a weak NT at least we get that
7. At least give me 3 tens and nines to make opening this more palatable. (see I'm not that far behind)
8. Swap the dia J for a major small card and now it looks a ton better. (see I'm not that far behind)

We do have 4 spades so there is a plus side

Opening 1 minor, with 11 or 21 hcp, regardless, has nothing to do with lead directing, showing source of tricks, having more than average defensive tricks, any shape, whether it is better to hope pd opens 1M in 3rd seat so we can drury, having a preemptive value.
Where did you get these weird requirement like ideas for opening 1 minor in 1st chair?

[sacto123]

steve2005, on 2018-April-26, 13:11, said:

IMPS/MP makes huge difference.
The people I know open all 12 hcp hands no matter how bad. Often bidding weak 1N
Passing 12 hcp bds on average gives bad results. Not saying perfect solution.

QJxx,QJx,QJx,QJx might be a reasonable 12 point pass in any seat.

[ggwhiz]

sacto123, on 2018-April-26, 20:55, said:

QJxx,QJx,QJx,QJx might be a reasonable 12 point pass in any seat.

I once opened a 15-17 notrump on AKQ, Qxx, Qxx, Qxxx and immediately thought What have I done! Justice was served and I went for my life.

I can't remember who but someone said that Levin-Weinstein would never crush a pair (unless they played against me) but they beat everyone. Maybe that's the style/difference in approach? My partnership can be really tough to beat over 2 sessions but not nearly as tough to beat over one. Back to back 60% = a 70% and a 50%.

[yunling]

To me this is an average 11 count. Usually I feel ok to open these hands, but not for everyone though.
The hand is very bad after
1♣ - p - 1♠ - 2♥
So definitely I'll not raising here.

Try a support double.

[ahydra]

I wouldn't hesitate to open this hand. Obviously I then treat it as a minimum in every way possible.

This is one place where the weak NT has a large advantage - a suit opening is guaranteed to have <=7 losers rather than possibly the 8 of a weak NT, and that extra trick of playing strength is often crucial. When not using the weak NT, it helps to have systemic methods to separate out the weak NTs from the unbalanced hands, for example transfer Walsh in a "clubs-or-balanced" or "split-range balanced" structure. For the auctions of this type 1C-p-1S-2H, I believe some pairs even go so far as to define opener's pass as "a weak NT, not necessarily denying support".

ahydra

[rhm]

Phil, on 2018-April-26, 13:43, said:

The war is over and the passers lost.

Its considered winning bridge in 2018 to open hands like this.

steve2005, on 2018-April-26, 13:11, said:

IMPS/MP makes huge difference.
The people I know open all 12 hcp hands no matter how bad. Often bidding weak 1N
Passing 12 hcp bds on average gives bad results. Not saying perfect solution.

A claim, for which no evidence is given as usual.
At least I have not seen any statistical evidence that opening minimum very flat 12 counts and treating all 12 counts alike is a winning proposition in the long run.
The one, which comes closest to some evidence is http://www.rpbridge.net/9x41.htm, but this is not directed to 4333 12 counts.
The evidence there about mini notrump (even when the bid occurred, not to say what effect it might have for balanced hands not in range) was inconclusive.
Fads should not be confused with progress. They are not the same.
The only thing, which seems to be clear is that there must be a lower limit in any standard system.
While the standard for opening has gone down over the years, there are enough world-class players who might pass the above hand.

Rainer Herrmann

[pes_6]

On my begginer course I've learned that open with every 13 Hps on first level in suit but in latter time I heard that everybody open with 12 Hps so I open one in suit with 12 Hps now and I think that is good solution. So 1♣ is normal oppening for me with hand in first post.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2018-April-26, 12:39, said:

Its an auto 1NT for me!

Auto for me in 1st 2nd and 4th, might think about it in 3rd.

[nekthen]

I am with the conservatives (at bridge)

A 12 count with two suits wide open and no tens and 4333 I pass and will smile at the scores as games go down all around

If partner can open we will find our game, if he can't, I may lose out to those who make a part score, but I win against those who go down and against opps who make something when they overcall with a light hand they would not have opened

[cherdano]

ggwhiz, on 2018-April-26, 12:31, said:

71% on BridgeWinners thought this was an auto 1♣ opening in 1st chair.

Can you give a link?

[0deary]

By the by I asked Forum a few weeks ago ?open on
AQ97, QT9, QT9, Qxx, universally “yes!”

The actual layout was unremarkable- naturally quite a spread of scores- but best to bag 1N