[Shugart23]

 Kungsgeten, on 2018-May-13, 13:39, said:

If you like the Hello-bids, and play canapé, then perhaps you can use the 1M overcalls as your opening bids:

(1m)-1M = 4M and longer side suit. Both majors possible.

That might actually be fun to try...I can see it now, overcalling 1S holding the 3,6,7,9 ! ( I have opened 1S with worse holdings countless times)..

Actually, you now have me thinking. If Opponent opens short Club and I don't have 16 HCP, Opponent hasn't taken away any of my bidding room....I wonder if in 2nd seat I were to add an imaginary King (for Rule of 20 purposes), perhaps I just then make my normal canapé bid and my partner makes her normal responses (subtracting 3 HCP from her hand)....I wonder if this would be a recipe for disaster....In this, I would still have to define what a Pass means and a Double means.......Maybe I will give it a try sometime or look at some hand records and try to deduce how bad or good it could be...Since I have never heard of anything like this, I suspect it may not be very sound, but might be interesting to see

[Kungsgeten]

 Shugart23, on 2018-May-14, 07:28, said:

That might actually be fun to try...I can see it now, overcalling 1S holding the 3,6,7,9 ! ( I have opened 1S with worse holdings countless times)..

Actually, you now have me thinking. If Opponent opens short Club and I don't have 16 HCP, Opponent hasn't taken away any of my bidding room....I wonder if in 2nd seat I were to add an imaginary King (for Rule of 20 purposes), perhaps I just then make my normal canapé bid and my partner makes her normal responses (subtracting 3 HCP from her hand)....I wonder if this would be a recipe for disaster....In this, I would still have to define what a Pass means and a Double means.......Maybe I will give it a try sometime or look at some hand records and try to deduce how bad or good it could be...Since I have never heard of anything like this, I suspect it may not be very sound, but might be interesting to see

I've seen several players play "system on" over a short club. I think it is a viable (and easy) option. Double then usually means "I would have opened 1 club!", so strong in your case?

[Shugart23]

 Kungsgeten, on 2018-May-15, 00:20, said:

I've seen several players play "system on" over a short club. I think it is a viable (and easy) option. Double then usually means "I would have opened 1 club!", so strong in your case?

We are going to try it...I need to find out if the new ACBL rules will allow me to overcall 1S holding 2,3,4,5 of Spades but I don't offhand see why not.....(I assume partner will need to alert my 1M overcall). I am chatting with Ken Rexford now just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. He tell me that he has done this with several partners but apparently with a few tweaks.

Yes, 1C is strong for us......we actually evolved from Precision to canapé because I just didn't like being constrained to having to have a 5 card Major to open 1M. I also didn't like the frequency of opening 1D only to hear opponents overcall 1M...so now I am able to open 1M first with horrible holdings in the suit (often times the opponent's 5 card suit) which can cause Opponents to have all kinds of difficulty with their bidding, penalty doubles and negative doubles. (It is especially fun when I get overcalled in my hidden 5 card+ suit).


It was a difficult 6 months to fully make the transition as the mindset and nuances are quite different, but now I don't think we will ever go back to 5 card Majors.

[dokoko]

IMO any method not including follow-ups is incomplete.

One of the best methods vs. a nebulous 1m opening is to ignore the fact that opener might be short in his "suit" and act as over a natural opening. This has the advantage of retaining your defined follow-ups including raises, cuebids etc. It isn't easy to improve on that.

When you redefine a bid, you have to look at how to bid hands that used the bid in the past. This is easy for a cuebid or Unusual NT (just bid one of your suits naturally), but not so easy for a responsive cuebid: (1♦)dbl-2♦ suggests both majors; how do you bid such a hand if 2♦ is defined as natural here? If virtually all bids of opp's "suit" become natural, how do you bid without cuebids?

Even a takeout double must be reconsidered. If your double only suggests the majors how can you bid reasonable minor contracts lacking a major fit? How do you bid hands with 43 in the majors and 51 in the minors?

IMO you need to address the concept of "Replacement Cuebids". For example, you might play (1♣)1♥-2♣ as natural and (1♣)1♥-1NT as one-round force, asking about the strength of the overcall.

You should also plan how to act when responder takes part in the auction; this is a real possibility. You should have clear rules to determine whether a bid of an opponent's suit is natural or a cuebid. Even if you decided to act as over a natural 1m opening you may bid opener's suit naturally once responder has delivered a suit to cuebid.

There are sensible concepts available on the web (you may search for "Grunt Defense" on bridgewinners.com or look into the material on bridgematters.com).

I like to play a method I call "partial transfers" when advancing partner's overcall. When partner overcalls a natural opening bid, the cuebid and higher bids are transfers to the next suit where the transfer to partner's suit is an inv+ raise. When partner overcalls a nebulous opening bid, the transfers start at 1NT.

Vs. a nebulous 1♦ we use a 1NT overcall to show hands with a 4cd major and a longer minor (any combination). Other bids (including 2♦) are as over a natural 1♦, dbl suggesting short ♦. We pass with long diamonds or a strong NT

This method is also playable over 1♣, but we try to improve on that as follows:
(1♣)dbl guarantees 3+ clubs and shows [a] takeout of diamonds [b] strong NT [c] natural clubs [d] any strong hand with 3+ clubs - advancer may ask with 1♦ or bid naturally.
(1♣)1♦ is a limited takeout of clubs (nonforcing) - later club bids are cues.
(1♣)1NT is a strong hand with short clubs (usually takeout) - advancer may ask with 2♣ (forcing to 2NT) or bid 2♦♥♠ nonforcing.
(1♣)2♦ is a good overcall.
Other bids are unchanged.

As suggested by Kungsgeten, over 1♣ you can obviously play system on. I am not sure, however, whether this is a good idea. There is good reason why overcalls and follow-up are not the same as openings and follow-up. I would prefer partner to lead my minor after (1♣)1♥(1♠)-(2♠)-(4♠) when my overcall is on ♥xxxx. Defensive bidding should cater for the possibiity that I might make only one bid.

When responder passes, this usually suggests length in the bid minor. Therefore I think you should reopen as over a natural opening.

[Shugart23]

 Kungsgeten, on 2018-May-15, 00:20, said:

I've seen several players play "system on" over a short club. I think it is a viable (and easy) option. Double then usually means "I would have opened 1 club!", so strong in your case?

Update :

So, partner and I are having a ton of fun now, playing our canape system over all non strong 1C bids....Bidding a crappy 4 card Spade suit I get doubled and run to my good 5 card Diamond suit, as one example that happened the other day (us white, them red)

It's still an experiment , but having amazing success and frustrating my opponents.....

We lose out on a lead directing over-call, but the fun is worth it (so far)…..

[Phil]

The main objectives are as follows (in order):

1. Disrupting their one level
2. Being able to overcall in ANY suit
3. Showing the majors

With a wide-ranging opening, preemption is very important. With a limited opening, its not as important and splitting our ranges becomes more vital.

Note that notrumpy hands aren't a huge deal. Showing 'points' may be.