[arepo24]

I always request my partner to please show me their 5 card major suit first rather than bidding 1 nt when they have 15-17 points and a 5-card major.
I would like to know what others do and why?
Thanks

[Vampyr]

If you don’t open a balanced hand in your NT range, partner will never believe you have a strong (or weak, or whatever you play) NT. It is normal these days to open 1NT on a balanced hand in range with a 5-card major or even sometimes a 6-card minor,

[blackshoe]

A hand with a six card suit is at best semi-balanced.

[FelicityR]

The big advantage of opening 1NT, whether weak or strong, is that your hand strength (12-14 or 15-17) and its shape (4333, 4432, 5332 usually) is quickly defined in one bid.

Occasionally, it is necessary to open 1NT with 5422 shape, too. What players seem to forget is that 1NT, especially when played weak, is a semi-pre-emptive bid, too.

I don't think I would be wrong in saying that the consensus among most, perhaps all, advanced/expert players is that opening 1NT with a five card major is de rigueur now. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[helene_t]

In a strong-NT "natural" system, I tend to open 1NT with five hearts but not with spades. This is what works best according to Pavlicek's research (yes, I know it's not an unbiased estimate but it's maybe the best evidence we have).

The reason is that a 1♠ opening prevents opps from bidding 1♥ (or 2♥ if partner can raise). To shut out their spade suit you need to open 1NT.

Another factor you can let weigh in is whether you have a doubleton in the other major. If so, it may be better not to open 1NT as partner will transfer to his 5-card suit so you play in a 5-2 rather than a 5-3 fit.

A third factor is the exact strength of the hand. With a hard-valued 17 you may miss game if you open 1NT, and with a modest 15 you are probably ok passing partner's preference bid after
1M-1NT
2m-2M

So it's mostly with the middle-of-the-road 16-counts that opening 1NT works better. With those hands you are not so happy with partner's preference bid since you don't know if you should pass or bid 2NT.

Whatever you and your partner decide, it is good to have agreements about how to deal with the 5M332 15-17 hands in the follow-ups. The easiest is to open 1NT and just don't worry about showing your 5-card suit. But of course you can agree to modify the follow-ups after Stayman (and maybe also transfers) to cater to the 5-card major.

If you decide to open 1M, you should discuss with partner how to show those hands in the follow-ups. For example:
1M-2m
Now:
- With 12-14, bid 2NT and pass partner's 3NT
- With 15-17, bid 3NT
- With 18-19, bid 2NT and raise partner's 3NT to 4NT

But of course partner doesn't always raise 2NT to 3NT so you need to think about other follow-ups also.

In my opinion, it's perfectly OK to open 1M. It's not like you have a rebid problem over a 1♠ or 1NT response. Just bid a 3-card minor (or maybe raise 1♠ on 3 cards with 15 points), if partner raises your minor suit you have enough to bid 3NT (or show belated support).

[johnu]

arepo24, on 2020-June-11, 14:52, said:

I always request my partner to please show me their 5 card major suit first rather than bidding 1 nt when they have 15-17 points and a 5-card major.
I would like to know what others do and why?
Thanks

What are you planning to rebid to show your HCP strength if partner responds 1NT to your 1M, or 1♠ if you opened 1♥?

When responder is weak, you don't want to get as high as 2NT, and when responder is stronger, they can't (may not want to) invite in case you have a minimum hand.

[DavidKok]

I think this depends strongly on partnership agreements and conventions. Also, not all balanced 15-17 hands with a five card major are alike. If I hold something like AQ, JTxxx, KJx, KJx opening anything other than 1NT sounds ridiculous to me. Give me AKQxx, xx, Axx, Axx and I'm opening 1♠ without a shadow of doubt. But part of the reason is that I play Gazzilli, which allows me to describe the strength of this hand on the second round without lying about shape. If you do not have these agreements then you will often face rebid problems after opening 1M, and settling for a 1NT opener is a solid approach to keep things simple.

To the best of my knowledge there is a progression here, where for new partnerships it's wise to 'always' open 1NT on balanced hands with the correct point range, even when holding a 5card major. Later you can add some exceptions, counting on partner to not hang you for the slightly inaccurate rebid that you will be forced to make. And eventually you might want to discuss this and solve it at the system level, making explicit agreements about 1NT with a major.

[Vampyr]

DavidKok, on 2020-June-12, 02:46, said:

Give me AKQxx, xx, Axx, Axx and I'm opening 1♠ without a shadow of doubt.

This example is not great because the hand is far too strong for a 15-17 1NT anyway.

[P_Marlowe]

arepo24, on 2020-June-11, 14:52, said:

I always request my partner to please show me their 5 card major suit first rather than bidding 1 nt when they have 15-17 points and a 5-card major.
I would like to know what others do and why?
Thanks

Bidding the 5 carder.
I am willing to always open 1NT, but I am not going the route to decide between 1M and 1NT depending on suit quality. I dont want to much
judgement calls in deciding, what opening bid to choose.
In the end it does not matter. Going via 1NT makes some auctions simpler / more symmetric, the issue being you may miss your 53 fits.
You can either accept this or counter this by adding Puppet Stayman, making your structure after 1NT more complicate and / or giving
opponents some add. informations, they would not get otherwise.

There do exits other methods, in a 2/1 context after 1H opening switch the meaning of 1S / 1NT (Kaplan Inversion), but again, this has + and -.

Take your pick. If your partner accepts this, be prepared to accept some of his pet agreements.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[nige1]

arepo24, on 2020-June-11, 14:52, said:

I always request my partner to please show me their 5 card major suit first rather than bidding 1 nt when they have 15-17 points and a 5-card major. I would like to know what others do and why? Thanks

IMO: with 5332 and a 15 HCP (or a good 14 HCP), you should open 1N. If you open 1♠, you can miss a close game when partner replies 1N.
Unless your partnership have agreed Gazzili or something similar, IMO, you should also open 1N with 16 HCP or a poor 17 HCP.

[DavidKok]

Vampyr, on 2020-June-12, 03:06, said:

This example is not great because the hand is far too strong for a 15-17 1NT anyway.

Fair enough, so let me change both minor suits to Kxx. I'd still open 1♠.

nige1, on 2020-June-12, 03:33, said:

IMO: with 5332 and a 15 HCP (or a good 14 HCP), you should open 1N. If you open 1♠, you can miss a close game when partner replies 1N.
Unless your partnership have agreed Gazzili or something similar, IMO, you should also open 1N with 16 HCP or a poor 17 HCP.

I agree completely (also I believe the correct spelling is 'Gazzilli').

[arepo24]

Well this was a learning experience for me as not one person agreed it is better to show the 5 card major first.
I am assuming that the top Gurus like Bergen and Cohen would feel the same way.
Thanks for strengthening my bridge brain.

[mycroft]

What your partner thinks is right is right.

The modern view is "5332s are balanced, use your balanced bid". Especially with 1♥-1♠; 1NT being "usually 12-14, but could very easily be 5H=3=3=2 15-17" is so hard to bid after. Of course, dealing with a common 5 card major in the 15-17 NT "requires" other changes (a common one is 1NT-3♣ GF Puppet, with 3♦ response not promising 4cM, so that it can be used routinely without giving away too much information).

My most regular partner expects "no 5-card major in 1NT", even though we have ways of (sometimes) finding out about it; but if it looks more like 1NT than 1M, we do it anyway. It works (although it works partially because said 1NT is 12-14).

But as you can see, "5332s are balanced, even 5M332" is something you should at least try for a while before you say "no."

[mikeh]

There is a difference between having 5 hearts and having 5 spades, but it isn’t (only or mostly) wanting to shut out the 1S overcall when holding hearts. That preemption is actually a two-edged sword. If they can overcall spades (over 1H but can’t bid over 1N), we will sometimes be much better off in hearts than notrump. Imagine us being 2533 and partner 2344 or so....or even when we have as many as six spades betweebpn us and an eight or nine card heart fit.

The main reason to prefer 1H on any 5332 hand (with five hearts)/is the impossible rebid problem after partner responds 1S to 1H.

Whatever scheme you use, you are distorting your hand. A 1N rebid shows, in a 15-17 notrump scheme, fewer than 15. A 2C rebid, on a 3 card, or even 2 card, suit risks playing there or buying a club raise. And so on.

When one opens 1S, with an in-range for 1N 5332 hand, your 2C response to 1N is also problematic, but no more so than when one has the same shape with 13 or so, and thus isn’t as big a deal (nor is dealing with a 1N response to 1H)

Btw, if one has a 5 card major and a side 4 card suit, then unless one has a hand such as AQxxx AQ xxxx Kx, where the second suit is very weak and one has cards in the short suits, it is My view that one should avoid opening 1N. Note that one never has an immediate rebid problem with any 5422 (with a 5card major) with the exception of 4=5=2=2. That’s an ugly hand, but at least you don’t have to worry about partner responding 1S....

So my advice is to open 1N freely with a 5 card major and 5332 shape. Be aware that a five card suit, with some internal texture, is often worth upgrading. So AJ1097 A109 Kx AJx is too strong for a 15-17 1N.

Avoid opening 1N with a side four card suit unless the hand cries out for the call.

[fromageGB]

While I have no problem showing the strength of a 5 card major with the use (or not) of Gazzilli, and always open the major in matchpoint scoring, with IMP scoring I prefer the 1NT as the infrequent gains offset the many small losses of an IMP. It's the other way round in matchpoints of course. I think the scoring method is a very important point that is commonly overlooked.

Perhaps one of the reasons why most "advanced/expert players open 1NT" (if that is true) is that they tend to play most of their games at IMP scoring.

[DarylK]

Opening 1NT with a 5 card major risks missing 5-3 fit major games.
This can be solved (especially at IMPs/teams scoring) by using 1NT - 3♣ as five card Stayman with a game forcing hand.

[Zelandakh]

This is one of those things that depends on system. Playing an American-style system, there is no way of showing a 5M(332) hand of NT range after opening 1 of the major so doing so ends up clogging up other auctions and making them less pure. The end result is that practice has shown that opening 1NT on these hands works out to be advantageous most of the time.

If you do not like this then I would suggest looking at French and German-style systems (aka SEF and Forum D respectively), in which a bidding sequence is specifically set aside for this hand type. There is a price to be paid for this of course but it is probably less than the price you pay in an American-style system.

[Vampyr]

mikeh, on 2020-June-12, 10:12, said:

The main reason to prefer 1H on any 5332 hand (with five hearts)/is the impossible rebid problem after partner responds 1S to 1H.

Is this what you meant to say?