BBO Discussion Forums: stop or go - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

stop or go

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,126
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2021-April-14, 19:19



MP's
Easy pass?, this should be unanimous I hope.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
0

#2 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,576
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2021-April-14, 20:15

I'm raising and it looks clear to me. It may depend on your min and max expectations for partner's actions, but I've always described a double and bid hand as one that risks missing game if partner would pass a simple overcall with support. Here I have support and an ace, so I need to move.

So no - not unamimous I suspect. :)
0

#3 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,760
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2021-April-14, 20:31

Raise is clear.

You've already limited your hand quite a bit by only bidding 1 the first time. You have an Ace and 3 card support. That's pretty much the nuts on this auction.
0

#4 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,097
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2021-April-14, 21:26

You already screwed up the first round of the auction. You can still have a spade fit at this point, partner can have a very strong 4x5+x hand. When you have both majors and not enough to cue bid, you should bid 1S first so that you can comfortably bid 2H next if partner cues or bids 2d. Then on this auction if partner prefers to 2S you can bid 3D.

This is unlike responding to a minor suit opening bid. This is because when responding to an opening bid, opener is expected to bid major suits up the line after your forcing response, so bidding lower of 4 cd suits reveals either fit. After a takeout double, doubler won't bid spades over 1h since that shows 5+. Bidding higher ranking allows you to show both more economically without getting awkwardly high if doubler takes a preference, and get both suits in if opps compete to 2c only.
3

#5 User is offline   apollo1201 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,130
  • Joined: 2014-June-01

Posted 2021-April-15, 01:13

Making a wrong bid the 1st time (which major to bid) doesn’t help.

Given we are halfway between weak and strong for the 1-level response (with 8-9, I try to bid 1NT or 2 something), so bidding S first and now 2H would show a moderately cooperative hand.

Now, our hand is still (a bit above) average. An Ace, a (weak) fit for D, a doubleton (potentially facing a doubleton however).

Awe should remember, though, that by not cue bidding or jumping in D, partner doesn’t promise more than 20 or so. At least how I play with my partner. So either one-suited but not a rock crusher of 9-10 tricks alone, or 5332 w/o clear C stopper where stretching a NT bid would be more appealing. Sth like AJx KJ(x) AQJxx Qx(x). Without a lot of luck, we are not going anywhere facing this.

And if partner had a 4(2/3)5(2/1) with S, well, too late now. Not sure, though, an 18-count with just the H ace to enter my hand for finesses would play well at 4S.

WE are definitely safe in 2D, very likely in 3D too. We could belong to S too.

Raising or not will be dependent on up to how strong partner can be.

Mine would not be strong enough to make game a good bet even at IMPs. If she needed just one ace from me, she’d not have bid 2D. So I’d pass this one, but with sth more, a Q, a 5th H, I’d take more radical actions.

If your style allows slightly more ambitious hands, then raising is automatic. We are in the fine line where we can’t commit to game but give a new round to partner in case they have some more.
0

#6 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,024
  • Joined: 2019-October-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SE England
  • Interests:Bridge, hiking, cycling, gardening, weight training

Posted 2021-April-15, 03:04

I'd pass. Partner has something like a seven or eight playing trick hand with diamonds, and game is unlikely. It depends on how strong your simple overcalls are. Those who play a simple overcall could be up to 18 HCP would play a change of suit as stronger so bidding on would be reasonable. I play simple overcalls up to about a bad 17 HCP.
0

#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,204
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-April-15, 03:29

View PostAL78, on 2021-April-15, 03:04, said:

I'd pass. Partner has something like a seven or eight playing trick hand with diamonds, and game is unlikely. It depends on how strong your simple overcalls are. Those who play a simple overcall could be up to 18 HCP would play a change of suit as stronger so bidding on would be reasonable. I play simple overcalls up to about a bad 17 HCP.


The danger hand is 7 diamonds to the AK and the club ace with enough small spades/minor honours that they can't run 5 but that's a fairly narrow target. That said it's a 1 response and 2 rebid, as you don't know pard doesn't have AKxx, x, AKxxxx, Kx or better now.
0

#8 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 974
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-April-15, 06:06

the opponents are quiet and partner has made a strong bid sequence (dbl. then 2) you should have responded 1 on first round as other players have said. when opponents are quiet you have to think where your bidding is going? for south not to bid and you with just an ace says that either 1 opener is strong or your partner is strong. 1 opener never made a bid over your 1, so that says your partner probably has the best hand at the table.
0

#9 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-April-15, 07:20

On the following assumptions

Opener has between 11 & 17hcp
Responder has 0-4hcp
=>Doubler has 15-25hcp
2 suggests <18hcp?

so Pass?
0

#10 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,283
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-April-15, 08:02

Being match points I would pass at this point and take the plus score. My opponents are the ones holding these same cards and it’s quite possible some of them climbed too high or played in the wrong fit.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#11 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,204
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-April-15, 08:13

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-April-15, 07:20, said:

On the following assumptions

Opener has between 11 & 17hcp
Responder has 0-4hcp
=>Doubler has 15-25hcp
2 suggests <18hcp?

so Pass?


2 suggests at least 18 not at most for many, they would overcall with any less (and we'd overcall stronger)
0

#12 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-April-15, 08:56

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-April-15, 08:13, said:

2 suggests at least 18 not at most for many, they would overcall with any less (and we'd overcall stronger)

I would do that over a weak 2 opening as I'd expect to be bidding the suit at the 3 level, but dial it down to 15 over a 1 level opening
0

#13 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,204
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-April-15, 11:11

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-April-15, 08:56, said:

I would do that over a weak 2 opening as I'd expect to be bidding the suit at the 3 level, but dial it down to 15 over a 1 level opening


this is a matter of style, when I polled xxx, void, AKx, AKQ10xxx over 1 on bridgewinners, of those that chose between 2 and x (a load chose 3), it was 13:3 in favour of the simple overcall.
0

#14 User is offline   Douglas43 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 675
  • Joined: 2020-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Man
  • Interests:Walking, boring my wife with bridge stories

Posted 2021-April-15, 12:09

I'd bid 3. In one way my response has worked out well because I've bid where my values are (is?). If partner has running diamonds they can take a pot at 3NT.
0

#15 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,425
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2021-April-15, 13:24

With one partner, I play Power Doubles (and 1NT Overcall for takeout, which may change things a bit). So with most 15s not short in opener's suit, we double. There are advantages to this when we don't double, but this call is just awful to handle (and that's even without having normal takeout doubles in there) . I can't imagine, playing normal takeout doubles, wanting to drop double-and-bid down to anywhere near 15.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#16 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,126
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2021-April-15, 14:22



Bad habits perpetuates bad bridge.

For me and I imagine everyone else, this is a clear 1 overcall.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
0

#17 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,024
  • Joined: 2019-October-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SE England
  • Interests:Bridge, hiking, cycling, gardening, weight training

Posted 2021-April-15, 14:32

View Postjillybean, on 2021-April-15, 14:22, said:



Bad habits perpetuates bad bridge.

For me and I imagine everyone else, this is a clear 1 overcall.


I would double then bid diamonds with that hand. Seven playing tricks and the K is likely a trick given an entry to dummy. If a simple overcall can be done on a hand that good, it puts a lot of pressure on partner to find a bid with a scattered 7 or 8 count or risk missing game. The hand is so good that 3NT is there with just one trick opposite, admittedly thanks to a very favourable layout.
0

#18 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-April-15, 14:35

That's worth a 3NT overcall
0

#19 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,126
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2021-April-15, 14:49

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-April-15, 14:35, said:

That's worth a 3NT overcall

Is that gambling 3nt, as an overcall?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
0

#20 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-April-15, 15:00

Double stopper in , K following the strong hand - I'm counting 8 tricks with an extra one from partner with responder passing.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users