BBO Discussion Forums: Win or lose leads - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Win or lose leads Doubling a World Champion

#1 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,289
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2005-June-17, 16:26

Playing with a client, Jeff Meckstroth on your right opens 1H and the auction continues:

1H-2C-2H-3C
4H-4S-5H-x
P-P-P

Before dummy comes down, Meckstroth says to his partner, "I'm sorry. This is all my fault."

Get this right and you win the K.O.s; wrong, and it's just another second best on your resume'. What do you lead? Did RHOs comment affect your choice?

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#2 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-June-17, 16:45

ace of clubs...i read nothing into the comment...my reasoning is i have no good lead, we bid and raised the suit, and its an ace against 5H X
0

#3 User is offline   ritong 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 258
  • Joined: 2003-May-11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2005-June-17, 17:01

hi:-)
first, i think that meck's remark is based on the fact that he plays w a client, so he takes on himself the possible blame , as his part obviously took a view bidding 5. the idea is : during play, take the blame on yourself, then discuss on healthy basis afterwards :) naturally, meck could have waited for the end of the deal to do that :D i admit i am surprised that a pro of his caliber allows himself such human reactions maybe he is not a robot, after all
second, it seems that the choice is between ace & underlead..i do not see danger concretely, so i do not underlead.
0

#4 User is offline   ritong 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 258
  • Joined: 2003-May-11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2005-June-17, 17:18

it could be that dummy has more trumps than expected, and that declarer has a two suiter w , extract trumps, discard ugly s on s , part has king & queen, okay..but in that case, meck has no obvious reason to anticipate the " blame-taking"...hmmm...i think i ll enjoy the end of the story :-)
0

#5 User is offline   bingo 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 2004-October-18

Posted 2005-June-17, 17:40

At the table, I would lead the ace of clubs, but would not be surprised based on the question in this forum, the comment by meckstroth, and the double by partner, if a heart lead is best. without the heart lead a cross-ruff may be in the offing.
0

#6 User is offline   HeartA 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,016
  • Joined: 2004-October-17

Posted 2005-June-17, 18:02

It could be that meck held and two suiters (6-4, maybe), while pd had s. meck regretted when his pd bid 5 where he didn't want to be. To lead trump seems right to me.
Senshu
0

#7 User is offline   pigpenz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,554
  • Joined: 2005-April-25

Posted 2005-June-17, 20:05

im a spade leader you helped set up the defense by bidding spades so partner has to be doubling on a spade card....i hope.... :)

as to which spade to lead that is another question ....ill go with J catering to partner having kx or kxx and that hell be able to direct the defense
0

#8 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2005-June-17, 20:18

what would you lead without the double? does the double ask you to lead something other than that 'normal' lead?
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#9 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,289
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2005-June-17, 20:23

Quote

does the double ask you to lead something other than that 'normal' lead?


What do you think?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2005-June-17, 21:04

Doble ask you to stop risking our score on ridicoulous high level contracts we don't belong to.

All leads but a seem reasonable, but A seems the oen wich retains contrtol of the situation.
0

#11 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,289
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2005-June-17, 21:39

I appreciate all the replies so far. Let me pose a proposition, though. Isn't bridge a great deal about deductive reasoning? The greatest proponent of deductive reasoning was the physician who taught Sir Arthur Canon Doyle when the latter was a young medical student. And, of course, Doyle later brought the world Sherlock Holmes.

And it was Holmes who once said, "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Another time the critical clue turned out to be the failure of a dog to bark.

So I'm wondering, what hands could partner hold and NOT (bark) double? If you elinimate those, then musn't the truth be that he holds whatever hand is left?

Does this concept alter your choice of leads?

Thanks,

WinstonM
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#12 User is offline   Blofeld 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 775
  • Joined: 2005-May-05
  • Location:Oxford
  • Interests:mathematics, science fiction, Tolkien, go, fencing, word games, board games, bad puns, juggling, Mornington Crescent, philosophy, Tom Lehrer, rock climbing, jootsing, drinking tea, plotting to take over the world, croquet . . . and most other things, really.

  Posted 2005-June-18, 05:57

My best guess is that my partner doesn't have s (we tried to probe for the double fit and partner refused any further action). This is likely to leave s as his second (or even first) suit. Furthermore, LHO bid 5 over 4, which inclines me to think that he isn't very long in spades either. So my best guess is that my RHO has s and s.

Given this, a looks obviously wrong. There could be some merit to leading the A, or a might help, but I actually think I'll try my small , leading through dummy's presumed suit into partner's presumed suit.
0

#13 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2005-June-18, 07:17

Winstonm, on Jun 17 2005, 09:23 PM, said:

Quote

does the double ask you to lead something other than that 'normal' lead?


What do you think?

i think it's a matter of agreement :) for me though, i'd lead a club without the double... so i lead my highest diamond
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,289
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2005-June-18, 08:31

Quote

i'd lead a club without the double


Is there a concensus that the (standard) double here shows a strong suggestion to defend?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#15 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2005-June-18, 09:17

to me it says "i think we can make 5, so 5, even off 2, will be poor for us unless we double"... of course it can also mean what fluffy said :)
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#16 User is offline   HeartA 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,016
  • Joined: 2004-October-17

Posted 2005-June-18, 10:11

declarer has majors, pd has minors. lead trump and cut ruffing power.
Senshu
0

#17 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,289
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2005-June-18, 19:56

Of all the facets of bridge, nothing can improve results more than finding the right opening lead time and time again. Many times it's a guess. Sometimes it's based on expectancy. And sometimes partner draws a roadmap for you if you can read it.

You have quite clearly shown an unbalanced black two-suiter; with this vulnerability, it's hard to know who is pushing who around and who can make what.

This certainly isn't a forcing pass auction, so partner must be sending a clear message that defending is the right choice. Would he do that with these hands:

Kxxx
x
xxxx
Kxxx

Qxxx
xx
xxx
KQxx

KQxx
xx
xxx
Kxxx

Nothing clear-cut about these holdings. So what kind of hand would give partner a clear cut double?

Qxxx
xx
KQJ
xxxx

Qxxx
x
AKxx
xxxx


Aren't these the hands that partner almost has to hold for his bidding to make sense?

For the record, partner led the club A, allowing declarer to score his Kx, the difference between +500 and +800

My hand?

xxxx
xx
AKx
xxxx

4S makes our way, so the +80 wasn't enough. +380 would have done it. So, another 2nd place on my resume'. B)

Without the double, the Club Ace is totally reaonable. However, I believe by eliminating the impossible, one can find the right lead on this hand.


WinstonM
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users