[cherdano]

bluenikki, on 2022-April-27, 05:47, said:

But dealing with a 2NT overcall after a 1♥ opening is way simpler than dealing with a 4NT. overcall of a. 2♣ opening.

Why? Either way we are probably guessing whether to bid 5♥ or 6♥ next round. Do you really think you can get partner to cooperate with the ♠K but not with the ♦K after 1♥ (2N)?

(Also, why aren't they overcalling 4NT over 1♥ if they are worth 4NT over 2♣?)

[Cyberyeti]

cherdano, on 2022-May-02, 18:05, said:

(Also, why aren't they overcalling 4NT over 1♥ if they are worth 4NT over 2♣?)

Because over 1♥ you have no idea if you're screwing parner over with a decent hand, over 2♣ you know that's much less likely, also they haven't bid a suit yet so the preemption is much more effective over 2♣

[nige1]

akwoo 'I'm surprised no one has mentioned 2♣-2♦-3♥ for them shows 5+ diamonds and 4 hearts, game forcing. (I don't play this in any partnership, but there are enough pluses that it's a reasonable agreement (and there are minuses as well, like this hand).)'
+++++++++++++++++++++
That seems to be a more sensible agreement for this sequence.

---

[pescetom]

akwoo, on 2022-May-02, 12:14, said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 2♣-2♦-3♥ for them shows 5+ diamonds and 4 hearts, game forcing.

(I don't play this in any partnership, but there are enough pluses that it's a reasonable agreement (and there are minuses as well, like this hand).)

Sounds to me like a huge minus: hands like this one need some similar sequence, whereas the 5+♦ 4=♥ hand will bid just fine after opening 1♦ (or some level of 2NT if the hand is 2452 heavy laden).

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2022-May-03, 07:48, said:

Sounds to me like a huge minus: hands like this one need some similar sequence, whereas the 5+◇ 4=♡ hand will bid just fine after opening 1◇ (or some level of 2NT if the hand is 2452 heavy laden).

What playing 1♦ with 6♥ cold, some hands are just too big. What do you open with AKQ, AKJx, AQ109xx, -, sorry partner, I only had xxx, Qxxxx, Jx, xxx

[cherdano]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-May-03, 02:59, said:

Because over 1♥ you have no idea if you're screwing parner over with a decent hand, over 2♣ you know that's much less likely, also they haven't bid a suit yet so the preemption is much more effective over 2♣

What kind of hand is that? Worried about missing 3NT when opponents opened 1♥ and you have 6-5 or 6-6 in the minors? Over 2♣, opener might just be strong balanced, and you might get doubled in 5m in any case - you do need sufficient playing strength. And over 1♥, it is more likely opponents have a big fit in a major.

[Cyberyeti]

cherdano, on 2022-May-03, 10:18, said:

What kind of hand is that? Worried about missing 3NT when opponents opened 1♥ and you have 6-5 or 6-6 in the minors? Over 2♣, opener might just be strong balanced, and you might get doubled in 5m in any case - you do need sufficient playing strength. And over 1♥, it is more likely opponents have a big fit in a major.

QJxxxx twice for example, is a bit of a problem when partner has the big hand with a huge spade suit over 1♥ and you should have been in 4♠/3N, this won't happen over 2♣.

[mikeh]

nige1, on 2022-May-03, 03:47, said:

akwoo 'I'm surprised no one has mentioned 2♣-2♦-3♥ for them shows 5+ diamonds and 4 hearts, game forcing. (I don't play this in any partnership, but there are enough pluses that it's a reasonable agreement (and there are minuses as well, like this hand).)'
+++++++++++++++++++++
That seems to be a more sensible agreement for this sequence.

---

I played it for a while. It rarely came up, since my style, and that of my regular partners, is to open 1D with some very strong 4=5 red hands. In those same partnerships we respond light, and sometimes very light, if we have a major, so we rarely (indeed,I could say never if my memory is reliable) miss a good game or slam after opening 1D. I recall one hand from many years ago where I had 23 hcp (including a stiff King) and we were the only pair in the event to reach 7H.

Plus when it comes up it’s actually very unwieldy since in my experience it’s rare for partner to have a good red fit, and actually not at all easy if he has a heart fit. How does he show a fit in hearts while showing or denying slam interest?

I read the article in the Bulletin by Jake Jabbour (iirc) advocating for this treatment, which he called Jaws. As is often the case with people advocating a pet method, his examples all worked perfectly…he seemed extremely careful, again iirc, not to show hands where it’s a disaster
.

Admittedly many strong 4=5 red hands, too strong to risk 1D, are difficult to bid absent this agreement. However, I see the benefits as very limited and the cost of not having a ‘hearts are trump’ jump after 2C 2D are real.

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-May-03, 10:14, said:

What playing 1♦ with 6♥ cold, some hands are just too big. What do you open with AKQ, AKJx, AQ109xx, -, sorry partner, I only had xxx, Qxxxx, Jx, xxx

Whilst I agree with what you say in general, it is very unlikely the opponents will remain silent holding ten clubs with all the honors between them.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2022-May-03, 11:46, said:

Whilst I agree with what you say in general, it is very unlikely the opponents will remain silent holding ten clubs with all the honors between them.

What two 7 counts with 5 clubs each ?

[cherdano]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-May-03, 10:31, said:

QJxxxx twice for example, is a bit of a problem when partner has the big hand with a huge spade suit over 1♥ and you should have been in 4♠/3N, this won't happen over 2♣.

Really disagree that this hand should bid 2N. What's your plan after 4H gets passed back to you?

[Cyberyeti]

cherdano, on 2022-May-03, 13:53, said:

Really disagree that this hand should bid 2N. What's your plan after 4H gets passed back to you?

I missed first time that partner was a passed hand which removes some of the objection to 4N, but I think I would still bid 2N, and give up to 4♥ hoping they can't make 6. Not unlikely that the hand over me will do something more constructive than just bounce 4♥ giving partner the chance to double 3m or bid 3♦ or otherwise show signs of life.