[fmjssy]

---

[smerriman]

2♣ every day of the week. You'll never be able to show your shape if you start with 1♠, while you lose nothing by starting with 2♣.

[Cyberyeti]

2♣ in any normal system, remove the ♣AK, 1♠ in pretty much any. How much you have to take away varies depending on whether 2/1 is GF or not.

I come from an Acol background (where 1♥-2♣-2♥ is not forcing), and the rule I was taught is that if you're not prepared to bid 2♠ over 2♥ in this auction, you respond 1♠

[AL78]

2♣. I'd only respond 1♠ with 5M 4otherM if I only have one bid opposite a minimal opener.

[apollo1201]

No serious player would show a shaky 4-cd major over a strong 5-cd minor with all that strength.

2C with no other choice, planning to rebid 2S over partner’s expected 2H, and maybe 3D next depending on how things turn.

Reverse the blacks to AKQx - Axxx Qxxxx and 1S looks much more attractive, planning to show C only if partner bids them naturally 1st, discovering a surprising 9-cd fit. However, things could get ugly over the not so unlikely 2H rebid, so even with that hand, 2C will be a more flexible and better anticipative bid.

[Cyberyeti]

 apollo1201, on 2022-December-22, 05:19, said:

No serious player would show a shaky 4-cd major over a strong 5-cd minor with all that strength.

Presumably you consider everybody who plays MAFIA a joker then (I don't)

[ali quarg]

I voted 2♣ only because I play Kaplan Inversion with my primary partner 2/1 GI.
Otherwise I'm in the MAFIA camp and can force with a follow up 3♣ after 1♠. The slam is on if we can find a fit

[LBengtsson]

A simple rule which is 99.99% applicable with many suit bids, is to bid length over strength. (There are exceptions MAFIA - Majors Always First In Answering, and some Canape systems). And the quality of the suit can make a difference.

However, in this example, the length and the strength is in the ♣ suit, so there is no alternative in natural systems other than to bid 2♣.

[Cyberyeti]

 LBengtsson, on 2022-December-22, 07:58, said:

A simple rule which is 99.99% applicable with many suit bids, is to bid length over strength. (There are exceptions MAFIA - Majors Always First In Answering, and some Canape systems). And the quality of the suit can make a difference.

However, in this example, the length and the strength is in the ♣ suit, so there is no alternative in natural systems other than to bid 2♣.

Well except everybody responds 1♠ to 1♥ with Qxxx, x, xxx, Axxxx, this is a situation where you often don't bid the longer suit

[ali quarg]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-December-22, 08:05, said:

Well except everybody responds 1♠ to 1♥ with Qxxx, x, xxx, Axxxx, this is a situation where you often don't bid the longer suit

And if your ♣ suit is as few as 3 when playing 2NT as artificial you may still end up in ♠ before showing real ♣.

[apollo1201]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-December-22, 05:48, said:

Presumably you consider everybody who plays MAFIA a joker then (I don't)

Should have specified playing common / standard-ish methods

[LBengtsson]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-December-22, 08:05, said:

Well except everybody responds 1♠ to 1♥ with Qxxx, x, xxx, Axxxx, this is a situation where you often don't bid the longer suit

Thanks. Yes, I forgot to say you need the high card points to respond at the two level first in any system. Duh! (What a complete putz, I am.)

[gszes]

i heard there is a great class on pickleball at the university. I may take that up and give up this grrr contrarian sport. ANYWAY

1S. IF we are going to reach a slam opposite anything like a moderate hand by p it is because we have an 8 card (44) fit or better. Starting with 2c might allow us to find 44 spade or dia fit but oddly it may make it almost impossible to discover if we have a 54 or even a 55 club fit since a simple 3 club raise could easily be from 3 card support.
Most hands will end up in 3n or (4h when p has a pretty decent heart suit). A 1s start gives us our best chance to discover a hard to reach slam. Same power but 4036 I would start with 2c.

STAY WELL

[Douglas43]

Have not raised a 2C response on three cards myself. Is it standard to do so in the US?

[pescetom]

 Douglas43, on 2023-January-14, 11:03, said:

Have not raised a 2C response on three cards myself. Is it standard to do so in the US?

It would be crazy over here where 2C does not promise clubs.
But even though our 2D response guarantees 5 cards (unlike some other sources including the usually sensible Larry Cohen) it is not standard to raise on 3 cards (occasionally it might make sense).

[Douglas43]

It's not usual in acol either. I thought it must be a 2/1 thing.

[Frank_lol_]

 Douglas43, on 2023-January-15, 01:29, said:

It's not usual in acol either. I thought it must be a 2/1 thing.

Playing 2/1, we also don't raise with 3 card support.