[jillybean]

---

[DavidKok]

I don't think there's all that much going on here?

[AL78]

Not sure whether this is good judgement or blind luck that EW didn't bother to even look for game with a combined 25 count yet there is no game on. North was trying to give EW a good score with a reckless bid but didn't succeed.

[jdiana]

I think there are a few things worth noting:

1. This is why I prefer a semi-forcing 1NT. As West, I would have passed a SF 1NT.

2. If this pair plays 1M-3m as showing an invitational 6-card suit, East has a choice between 1NT and 3♦. I can see either bid but it's pretty quacky. I think I would have bid 3♦.

3. Given the first two rounds of bidding, I think East should have rebid 3♦ rather than 2♦.

4. (Edited) - At first, I thought it was odd that West passed 2♦ but I guess I can see that. First rule of a misfit is to stop digging.

[mike777]

I play semi-forcing NT, That West hand is a full opener, please don't ever pass
2C is fine
Very common start
1s- 1Nt
2C...

[jillybean]

I play forcing 1nt
I read East's hand as weak with diamonds, no tolerance for clubs, which could be short.

[jdiana]

mike777, on 2024-December-06, 18:25, said:

I play semi-forcing NT, That West hand is a full opener, please don't ever pass
2C is fine
Very common start
1s- 1Nt
2C...

I would bid 2♣ with a 3-card suit only if I were at the top of my range, with 14 HCP. Having three aces may be a good reason to upgrade this hand. Each to his own.

[mike777]

Interesting approach
I would only pass sf 1NT with drek 11, so much more rare than your application.

kJxxx..Qxx..Qx..QJX

[smerriman]

East has shown a weak hand with diamonds, and they don't have a weak hand. (Unless they thought 2♣ was artificial, Gazzilli like.) But I don't think anything suspicious is going on, if that's the implication; people make poor bids all the time.

[jdiana]

mike777, on 2024-December-06, 19:19, said:

Interesting approach
I would only pass sf 1NT with drek 11, so much more rare than your application.

kJxxx..Qxx..Qx..QJX

I don't want to hijack this thread (more than I already have - sorry JB), so I started a new one. I'll be interested to see what criteria other players have for when to pass a SF 1NT. I have a feeling that your approach is more prevalent among more advanced players, who may also be more inclined to open more aggressively.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2024-December-06, 18:27, said:

I play forcing 1nt
I read East's hand as weak with diamonds, no tolerance for clubs, which could be short.

What would 3D have been instead?
If it is natural and invitational with no promise of fit then it looks like the standout bid.

But then I play semi-forcing NT and am unfamiliar with the nuances of rebids after forcing NT... what would a rebid of 3D rather than 2D have shown?

[apollo1201]

What is going on? The DK is under W chair who did not realize he had 12 cards. Still tjey like the SQ and CQJ in E potential 2nd suit so do not want to sell out cheaply. All will be revealed when they table dummy.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2024-December-07, 07:57, said:

What would 3D have been instead?
If it is natural and invitational with no promise of fit then it looks like the standout bid.

But then I play semi-forcing NT and am unfamiliar with the nuances of rebids after forcing NT... what would a rebid of 3D rather than 2D have shown?

The method I play after 1M 1nt shows
A weak raise in opening M. 6-7. I play 1M 2M constructive 8-10
A 3 card limit raise 1M 1nt 2m 3M
A weak hand, no tolerance for M , wanting to get out in another suit , will pass openers rebid or correct to own suit at 2 level

1M 1nt 2x 3y seems to fit this hand,

[smerriman]

jillybean, on 2024-December-07, 15:00, said:

A weak hand, no tolerance for M , wanting to get out in another suit , will pass openers rebid or correct to own suit at 2 level

The catch is what to do if you can't bid at the 2 level; e.g. consider a weak hand with 6-7 of a minor after opener rebids 2♥ instead, when you may still need to sign off in 3 of a minor. Which is why it's quite common to play an immediate 1M - 3m as the invitational hand, and 1M - 1N followed by correcting to your suit as the weak hand. But in all cases, 1NT then 2♦ here is weak.

[mike777]

smerriman, on 2024-December-07, 15:11, said:

The catch is what to do if you can't bid at the 2 level; e.g. consider a weak hand with 6-7 of a minor after opener rebids 2♥ instead, when you may still need to sign off in 3 of a minor. Which is why it's quite common to play an immediate 1M - 3m as the invitational hand, and 1M - 1N followed by correcting to your suit as the weak hand. But in all cases, 1NT then 2♦ here is weak.

Agree, this is quite common agreement.
However for Bergen bidders, they end up putting weak and invitational long minors into 1NT. after..1s...1nt...2h...??
2nt is solidly invitational, most likely game on misfit, 3 of minor is weakishish ish...