[harikannan]

https://tinyurl.com/2xp9j9x9

Other than by playing shape-showing bids, is there a way to find the minor suit slam (or) did i bid 3NT hastily?

Thanks in advance.

[mw64ahw]

I play both major and minor 5-card asks with the latter being used in slam going hands as is the case here (6.5 mod. losers).
1N - 2♣ 5cM?
2♦ No (not 2/3♥2♠) - 2♥ denies 4♥
2N min. - 3♣ 5cm?
3♠ 5♦ - 4♣ Sets ♦ with ♣ control

[DavidKok]

Another day, another highly specific mw64ahw gadget. South has to push for slam opposite a minimum 5♦332 on that sequence and is very lucky to find a compatible hand - change the spade queen to a heart and the slam is hopeless. Slot in some jacks instead of a king or queen and it's also poor odds.

I think the auction you had is normal. The slam making is kind of perfect storm, with both opener and responder having a very suit-oriented hand within their range and an undisclosed 9-card fit in a minor suit. There might be ways to find the slam, especially if South optimistically upgrades to a 4NT rebid, but I'd consider such auctions questionable. Both hands need to find their partner with a pretty perfect hand opposite for slam to be good.

[shyams]

DavidKok, on 2025-July-30, 00:19, said:

<snip>change the spade queen to a heart and the slam is hopeless. Slot in some jacks instead of a king or queen and it's also poor odds.

...or just remove South's ♥3 and put a ♣3 instead.

DavidKok, on 2025-July-30, 00:19, said:

I think the auction you had is normal. The slam making is kind of perfect storm, with both opener and responder having a very suit-oriented hand within their range and an undisclosed 9-card fit in a minor suit. There might be ways to find the slam, especially if South optimistically upgrades to a 4NT rebid, but I'd consider such auctions questionable. Both hands need to find their partner with a pretty perfect hand opposite for slam to be good.

Strong agree that stopping at 3NT is normal.

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2025-July-30, 00:19, said:

Another day, another highly specific mw64ahw gadget. South has to push for slam opposite a minimum 5♦332 on that sequence and is very lucky to find a compatible hand - change the spade queen to a heart and the slam is hopeless. Slot in some jacks instead of a king or queen and it's also poor odds.

I think the auction you had is normal. The slam making is kind of perfect storm, with both opener and responder having a very suit-oriented hand within their range and an undisclosed 9-card fit in a minor suit. There might be ways to find the slam, especially if South optimistically upgrades to a 4NT rebid, but I'd consider such auctions questionable. Both hands need to find their partner with a pretty perfect hand opposite for slam to be good.

Not my gadget, but one I picked up trawling websites a few years ago and has proved useful on a few occasions.
I think its referred to as SARS; a minor suit shape asking relay. Here is a slightly different version st25sars.doc
And the question was 'is there a way to find a minor suit slam?'

[Cyberyeti]

Play a weak no trump (I'm joking), I suspect your auction is relatively normal. Not sure if we get there after a 1♦-2♦(inverted) start.

It's one of those hands where intermediates are in fact irrelevant, but if you have them, somebody might upgrade a bit.

[awm]

I would have tried 4nt as south; the traditional 33 for 6nt is statistically more than you need, and the south hand is very control rich. Over this, north can try 5d (natural forward-going).

[Cyberyeti]

awm, on 2025-July-30, 02:33, said:

I would have tried 4nt as south; the traditional 33 for 6nt is statistically more than you need, and the south hand is very control rich. Over this, north can try 5d (natural forward-going).

This was kinda the point I was making, I would do that with A10xx, A10x, KJ10x, Kx which opposite what is actually there is not much better, but I don't think this hand is quite worth it, there are too many 17s that don't make a slam opposite.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the bidding is normal, ... South has 15HCP and a bal. hand, yes he has Aces,
you could make a case to upgrade the hand, but the NT has also only 15HCP,
again he has a 5 carder and Aces, but those is not enough to upgrade this hand
to a max.

In a weak NT system it may be possible to discover the diamond fit below 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[harikannan]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-July-29, 23:14, said:

I play both major and minor 5-card asks with the latter being used in slam going hands as is the case here (6.5 mod. losers).
3♣ 5cm?
3♠ 5♦ - 4♣ Sets ♦ with ♣ control

GIB doesn't play SARS. I understand that with a regular human partner, that's the way to go. I was curious to see how many would have tried 4NT quantitative.

Thanks to all who chipped in with their thoughts.

[Huibertus]

The only way you can bid 6♦ is if you have agreed on Minor Suit Ask (2NT) AFTER Stayman or similar tools, so 1 NT - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2 NT where 3♣/♦ show 5 cards and 3♥/♠ show 4 cards ♣/♦ respectively. In that case after opener bids 3♦ South is good enough to start investigating with a non-serious cue or non-serious 4♦ whatever the agreement is. And opening hand will be very happy to cooperate on this hand. So that would be reasonable. I can't see how you'd bid 6♦ without such agreements. And even when you do have the tools available, I still find just not bothering and bidding 3NT reasonable too.

[WasWinM]

I haven’t given this a lot of thought but if you play 4-way transfers and transfer into diamonds followed by 3nt why wouldn’t that be a slam suggestion with only 5 diamonds?
If you have 6 you know you have a fit.
If you don’t have a slam try you would just bid 3NT without a transfer.

[mw64ahw]

WasWinM, on 2025-July-30, 14:22, said:

I haven't given this a lot of thought but if you play 4-way transfers and transfer into diamonds followed by 3nt why wouldn't that be a slam suggestion with only 5 diamonds?
If you have 6 you know you have a fit.
If you don't have a slam try you would just bid 3NT without a transfer.

Because you only have 4♦

[Cyberyeti]

WasWinM, on 2025-July-30, 14:22, said:

I haven’t given this a lot of thought but if you play 4-way transfers and transfer into diamonds followed by 3nt why wouldn’t that be a slam suggestion with only 5 diamonds?
If you have 6 you know you have a fit.
If you don’t have a slam try you would just bid 3NT without a transfer.

Wrong hand opens for that.

It occurs to me I do have methods to deal with this, what is not clear is whether I'd use them. I play a weak NT and hence don't play smolen, but transferring our methods over, 1N-2♣-2♦-3♥ is mSS, now 4♦ shows the 5 card diamond suit. Whether responder is good enough to do this however is not clear.

[WasWinM]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-July-30, 14:26, said:

Because you only have 4♦

Damn technicalities😁

[harikannan]

 Huibertus, on 2025-July-30, 13:05, said:

The only way you can bid 6♦ is if you have agreed on Minor Suit Ask (2NT) AFTER Stayman or similar tools, so 1 NT - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2 NT where 3♣/♦ show 5 cards and 3♥/♠ show 4 cards ♣/♦ respectively.

How would the responder bid with invitational values and a 4-card major in that system?