[jillybean]

It makes no sense to me, smaller game today with just 14 tables but plenty of interesting, computer dealt hands.
(the complaining about computer dealt hands has stopped)

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Strong nt, I assume do you check for a heart fit? Take it from here.

[mike777]

Probably would just have bid 6NT
Immediately so I could take snack break.

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2025-August-06, 18:30, said:

Probably would just have bid 6NT
Immediately so I could take snack break.

Does you partner have any issue with you putting down dummy then leaving the table?
I hazard a guess this would only happen in NA

[smerriman]

3♠, agreeing hearts. Keep control bidding until we find out about spades.

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2025-August-06, 18:44, said:

Does you partner have any issue with you putting down dummy then leaving the table?
I hazard a guess this would only happen in NA

snack room just a few steps away, take a cookie or two and return to table.

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-August-06, 19:25, said:

3♠, agreeing hearts. Keep control bidding until we find out about spades.

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What does 3!s say?

[shyams]

3♠. Confirms heart fit and encourages an investigation into a slam.

[mikeh]

It is standard in NA, amongst experienced partnerships, to play that 1N 2C 2M 3OM is a slam try in the major opener bid. It’s usually balanced or semi balanced since splinters are available. However, with a very strong hand I might well not splinter since splinters tend to suggest slam will be good if partner has little astate, and with a very good hand I’m not that worried about wastage,

That last part was a digression: this hand is an easy 3S bid, requesting cue bidding.

An alternative approach that has some, though fewer, adherents is Baze, invented by the late Grant Baze.

There, 3S would be a splinter in any of the side suits….opener bids 3N if interested and 4H with a non suitable hand. 4C is the big balanced heart raise. 4D instead would be keycard in hearts, but one should generally strain to avoid keycard with an uncontrolled suit…here it is just possible that we have 33 hcp missing the heart AK plus I’m not convinced I know how to find grand after launching directly into keycard.

[jillybean]

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Key card?

[Cyberyeti]

When we are in a cue bidding auction, NT bids substitute for the most expensive cue bid so 3N over 3♠ would be a spade cue, so 3♠-3N-4♣-4♦ would save some space even though it wouldn't be that useful in this case except that 4♠ would ask aces for us. I don't think you can find out whether partner has all the cards for 7 as shape also matters.

Example:

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is 12 tricks in hearts or NT with no chance of 13

The same hand 2443 or 3442 is 13 in hearts or NT, but 3424 is only 12

[mw64ahw]

Depending on partner 3♠ as above or 4♣ showing ♣ control & denying ♠ control

[pescetom]

It is standard among decent players in Italy that after 2♥ we bid 4♣, fixing trumps in hearts and showing clubs control and denying spades control. Now Opener will hopefully bid 4♦, showing spades control: if so we are on firm ground to continue, if not we will pass his 4♥ comfortably, knowing we will lose the first two tricks.

[jillybean]

It's no surprise that we didn't get this right.

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This hand was the south holding in this thread

[Cyberyeti]

So 6♥ was pretty much cold, 6N was good, 7♥ has play, 7N needs ♦Qxx onside or an unlikely squeeze.

Not sure where we end up, I suspect 6♥. The danger hand is variants on AJx, AJxx, Axx, Qxx where 6♥ is good, 6N on a finesse.

[WasWinM]

If I were to sit down with a pickup partner who said he was advanced I would fully expect the bidding to go like this with no previous discussion:

1NT-2C
2H-3S
4D-5C
?**

**5H with no spade control
**6H with Spade King
**5S with Ace spades
**5NT with consolidated spade values minus Ace

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-August-07, 07:28, said:

It's no surprise that we didn't get this right.

This hand was the south holding in this thread

So not only would I not accept the quantitative invite, I would not make it
With these majors I probably bid Stayman, but a direct 6NT response has its merits and might work out well here at MP.

If I did agree a traditional Stayman and bid it here, then it might well go:
1NT - 2♣
2♥ - 4♣
4♦(♠) - 4NT(even)
5♦ - 6♣
6♥ - P

[mikeh]

One reason that I play that 1N 4S is a 4N bid with (32)44 shape and 4N is either 33(34) or some 5332 with a long minor is precisely because one should always stayman holding a major. Even if one is 4333 or 3433, opener will more often be some 4432 than 4333….statistically 4432 is more common than 4333.

On the game level, especially if our 4 card major is weak, it makes sense to jump to 3N with 4333 or 3433 and some extra values because a bad break may doom 4M while one may well have 9 easy winners without needing to trump something (hence the suggestion of having some extras).

At the slam level the calculus is slightly different. Firstly, when your side has more than 30 hcp, the chances of have a weak 4=4 fit are reduced….your side simply has so many hcp that the odds are good that your 4=4 fit is fairly robust. Secondly, since the 4=4 fit often plays a trick better than does notrump, unless and even sometimes when you are mirrored (you may be able to engineer a strip and endplay to give you a ruff sluff as one example) that extra trick may be the difference either between making or failing in slam or in making a grand.

Hence one should always stayman.

After 1N 2C 2H, a reasonably coherent bidding method would explore for grand.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2025-August-07, 09:24, said:

After 1N 2C 2H, a reasonably coherent bidding method would explore for grand.

How would you do that ? I could find out partner was (2)44(3) with Q♣ and 3 aces, but would struggle to work out whether the ♠J was the ♦Q instead.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-August-07, 09:45, said:

How would you do that ? I could find out partner was (2)44(3) with Q♣ and 3 aces, but would struggle to work out whether the ♠J was the ♦Q instead.

We’d explore but I very much doubt that we’d bid it.

1N 2C 2H 3S 4D is easy. 4D suggests a non minimum….really poor slam hands bid 4H but with 3 aces and a 16 count, opener is happy to cooperate.

It’s vanishingly unlikely that we’re off the AK of spades and we rate to have 5 level safety even then….partner would have to have QJ/AJ/AQ/Q, possibly less one jack, in order to open 1N and a hand missing the trump KQ and the AK in both black suits has no business bidding 4D.

So responder can keycard. This leads to finding out all the keycards. Kickback is always a good idea with hearts trump so I’ll assume that.

1N 2C 2H 3S 4D 4S 5C 5S 6H. 6H no side king. North gives up. He’d need a perfecto.

Had south owned up to the spade King, via 5N over 5S….shows a king biddable because it’s higher than 6H….north could bid 6C, asking for the club Queen. Note how useful kickback is. With opener having, say, AKx Axxx Axx Qxx that’s a reasonable grand…needs only a 3-2 trump break. Definitely worth bidding at mps. Borderline at imps, but worth bidding since there is zero risk of the opps at the other table missing small. It’s the ‘accidents happen’ risk that the opps miss slam that makes most experts want a 75% probability for grand.

Many years ago I played a relay method wherein responder would find out that opener was Axx KQxx Axxx Qx, with the likelihood of one or two jacks in the majors but possibly neither. That leads to 6H as well.