[DavidKok]

Let's keep it moving. I'm doing away with the spoilers from here on. In no particular order:

• mike777 had the 1♦-1♠; 2♥-3♠; ? start, which I think should set trumps (with lesser spades, instead bid 1♦-1♠; 2♥-2♠; <something>-3♠).
  
• mikeh started 1♣-1♥*; 1NT-2♥*; 2♠-3♥*; ? - here responder is showing a similar hand type, a slam try with long spades, but notably opener has chosen to describe the hand differently (balanced instead of two-suited). We're also one step lower and a spades contract will be played by the other side. I presume 3♥ sets trumps and initiates control bidding - please describe how opener continues. Do you have some (Non)Serious gadget, and how do you weigh the HCP maximum versus the singleton queen in support and unwelcome shape in evaluating this hand in context?
  
• mw64ahw broke out a specialised gadget, bidding 2♣-2♦; 3♥-4♠; 5♠-? where 3♥ showed exactly 1=4=4=4 - quite high for a 19-count when partner had no room to contribute. 4♠ was a slam try setting spades, and 5♠ showed odd keycards and the queen. Unfortunately I think this is too high for partner to make an informed decision.
  
• Cyberyeti bid 1♦-1♠; 1NT-2♣; 3♣-?, also choosing to treat the hand as 17-19 balanced and representing exactly 2=3=4=4 it seems? Over this partner will make a slam try in spades, perhaps with 3♠ if that bid carries that meaning. What are your continuations?
  
• jillybean chose to upgrade into 2NT, also representing the hand as balanced. Over this I play that 4♦ shows a slam try in spades (and sets the trump suit), which partner will use. I imagine you'd respond 4♠ (negative) rather than 4♥ (positive), over which partner is in a difficult spot.

I won't reveal partner's hand just yet, but I can say that partner isn't really interested in keycards. Controls and playing strength are more valuable on this deal, and having tools to establish a slam try in spades by the 3♠ level or so is a major benefit on this deal. Please let me know how your auctions would continue, I'll jump in and provide partner's actions if needed (and you tell me what the options are).

4x1's are problem hands for almost all bidding systems - this is the only hand type that is neither balanced nor has (at least) a five card suit. If you add some strength to the hand it also becomes unattractive to sit back and let partner take the reins. I think most or all of these auctions are still on track for finding good contracts, and it's interesting to see the impact of multiple close decisions.

[mw64ahw]

The other option I have is opening my esoteric unbalanced ♦

Now if the hand is game invitational
After opener shows shape responder indicates strength followed by opener showing shortage

---

or
The 2♥ bid shows one of s4(53), s444,xx55 or x45x GI only for the latter after 2♠
Game invitational

---

Game forcing

---

Game forcing with self-sustaining Spades

---

[DavidKok]

Responder has a game forcing hand with spades, but needs shape information from opener before committing to any trump suit and strength information before committing to a slam try. I'm not sure what your game forcing options are over 1♦, but responder can not commit to showing self-sufficient spades in my opinion until opener has shared the hand type and primary suits. I'd like to know what your exact criteria are for showing a game forcing hand with a self-sufficient suit, so that I don't misinterpret your methods.
Do keep in mind though that at the table you can't normally choose a different opening bid after your gadget misfired at the 5-level.

[mike777]

I mentioned in my post above the problem for me during the kickback sequence.

My having all the outside kings and the
queen of trumps is a problem in showing them in my style.

It could be resolved by responder lying over my 6C bid.
Unfortunately in teaching this version of Kickback to my partner, this situation has never come and I doubt they would think of it.

In the style, many years ago, that I was taught captaincy can and does flow back and forth during the kickback auction. My partner was rather shocked by that revelation.

Again perhaps updating my version of Kickback may have resolved this particular issue.

Alternatively, once all the keys are promised, and partner shows grand interest, with so much extra I may say What would Brink do here and just leap to the Grand. So far I have only promised around 16hcp.

[mikeh]

As noted, we start 1C 1H 1N 2H 2S 3H

Opener has options. They do not include any serious or frivolous 3N. Over 3H I’d bid 3S, hoping to hear 4C. I could bid 4C myself but I’d prefer to let partner cue clubs if he can.

I like my hand for slam purposes on this auction, since the spade queen rates to be useful and I have a high card super max. Obviously Qx would be better but, apart from holding a small spade, I really couldn’t have a more suitable slam hand.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-21, 03:18, said:

Let's keep it moving. I'm doing away with the spoilers from here on. In no particular order:

[*]Cyberyeti bid 1♦-1♠; 1NT-2♣; 3♣-?, also choosing to treat the hand as 17-19 balanced and representing exactly 2=3=4=4 it seems? Over this partner will make a slam try in spades, perhaps with 3♠ if that bid carries that meaning. What are your continuations?

3♠ is not a slam try yet, partner will cue over 3N which sets spades and is a slam try.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-21, 17:01, said:

3♠ is not a slam try yet, partner will cue over 3N which sets spades and is a slam try.

This is curious to me. If partner has shown exact shape and such a narrow range, how can a game forcing bid not be a slam try? Can't we directly sign off in 4♠ without slam interest?

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-22, 01:35, said:

This is curious to me. If partner has shown exact shape and such a narrow range, how can a game forcing bid not be a slam try? Can't we directly sign off in 4♠ without slam interest?

I suppose it’s conceivable that 3S is COG, but that seems to me to be much inferior to 3S as a slam try. A corollary to your last point is that if 3S is not, in itself, a slam try, how does responder set spades as trump and concurrently show slam interest?

[DavidKok]

mike777, on 2026-February-21, 08:15, said:

I mentioned in my post above the problem for me during the kickback sequence.

My having all the outside kings and the
queen of trumps is a problem in showing them in my style.

It could be resolved by responder lying over my 6C bid.
Unfortunately in teaching this version of Kickback to my partner, this situation has never come and I doubt they would think of it.

In the style, many years ago, that I was taught captaincy can and does flow back and forth during the kickback auction. My partner was rather shocked by that revelation.

Again perhaps updating my version of Kickback may have resolved this particular issue.

Alternatively, once all the keys are promised, and partner shows grand interest, with so much extra I may say What would Brink do here and just leap to the Grand. So far I have only promised around 16hcp.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with your Kickback agreements. Could you share what your options are over 3♠?

mikeh, on 2026-February-21, 08:28, said:

As noted, we start 1C 1H 1N 2H 2S 3H

Opener has options. They do not include any serious or frivolous 3N. Over 3H I’d bid 3S, hoping to hear 4C. I could bid 4C myself but I’d prefer to let partner cue clubs if he can.

I like my hand for slam purposes on this auction, since the spade queen rates to be useful and I have a high card super max. Obviously Qx would be better but, apart from holding a small spade, I really couldn’t have a more suitable slam hand.

Sorry for the slow reply. Partner does bid 4♣ over your 3♠, and now it's back to you.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-22, 01:42, said:

Sorry, I'm not familiar with your Kickback agreements. Could you share what your options are over 3♠?


Sorry for the slow reply. Partner does bid 4♣ over your 3♠, and now it's back to you.

I bid 3S hoping to hear 4C. I’m not driving to slam but I’m willing to commit to 5S, so I bid a red suit, expecting partner to sometimes feel forced to bid 4S with a hand on which 6S is good. Say AKJxxx xxx xx Ax. Which red suit? Even in my pretty serious partnership I don’t have an agreement as to the difference between 4D then 5H and 4H then 5D. There are 3 possible red suit holdings….either one of the aces and the king of the other or both red suit aces. Only two available bids.

Had I not already decided upon this approach when I bid 3S, I would have bid 3N. My regular partner, when given the problem, preferred 3N. Personally, I think it close I think I’d go my route but 3N could easily be the winner. How’s that for hedging my bet?

Btw, a slight plug for methods. Many of the layouts where 6S makes need the contract declared by opener, to protect the diamond holding. That is a minor factor in choosing 3S. We’ve not discussed it but, in accordance with our overarching tendencies, he could bid 4H over 3N as insisting upon spades. So we’d protect the diamond holding anyway. If the auction makes partner the declarer, the chances of failure grow up, depending on the diamond situation.

Finally, if he can end up counting all the controls but is worried about a source of tricks, knowing I have a good hand (having driven to the five level) will make it easier for him to be aggressive.

[DavidKok]

Do keep in mind opener was already first to bid spades (and NT), as your start of the auction was 1♣-1♥; 1NT-2♥; 2♠.
Over 4♦ partner will commit to slam, though I'm not sure how to best investigate which slam and small versus grand. If you choose 4♥ instead partner will bid 4♠, allowing you to bid 5♦ next as described.
I think we'll get to the rest of the auction and the slam choice once I reveal partner's hand, and you can tell me how partner might have bid on this auction.

[mike777]

On this auction after the reverse, for me, 3S shows 6+spades, gf, 9 or more HCP. To be clear while it forces us to game, it does NOT set trump. Called Structured Reverses by Root-Pavlicek. I learned it decades ago.. smile
I raise to 4S.

Btw 2 Spades would be nongf, less than 8/9 HCP and 5+ spades.
Exactly 5 Spades and gf goes thru 4SF.

I assume responder, if strong enough, starts ace asking with 4NT and then specific King showing after that if all the keys are present.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-22, 01:35, said:

This is curious to me. If partner has shown exact shape and such a narrow range, how can a game forcing bid not be a slam try? Can't we directly sign off in 4♠ without slam interest?

partner could still be 3244 at this stage, 3♠ simply shows a 5th one

[DavidKok]

mike777, on 2026-February-22, 02:38, said:

On this auction after the reverse, for me, 3S shows 6+spades, gf, 9 or more HCP. To be clear while it forces us to game, it does NOT set trump. Called Structured Reverses by Root-Pavlicek. I learned it decades ago.. smile
I raise to 4S.

Btw 2 Spades would be nongf, less than 8/9 HCP and 5+ spades.
Exactly 5 Spades and gf goes thru 4SF.

I assume responder, if strong enough, starts ace asking with 4NT and then specific King showing after that if all the keys are present.

Sorry, I think this 2♠ limited to about 8/9 is a terrible agreement. Let's stick with your system, but it will make life more difficult on this auction.
So responder has to answer 3♠ to 1♦-1♠; 2♥-?. I don't understand opener's subsequent raise to 4♠ - you have one of the worst possible hands for spade on the reverse, and you have ♣KQJx in the unbid suit. If 3♠ didn't set trumps, why not bid 3NT?
Either way responder is now unable to set spades by the 3♠-level, which will present a challenge.

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-22, 02:48, said:

partner could still be 3244 at this stage, 3♠ simply shows a 5th one

Oh yikes, so opener now also bids 3NT over 3♠, having not even the expected doubleton in support? How does responder set spades as trumps over 3NT?

[mike777]

I suppose they could rebid 4S over 2H if they have some rare long spade hand, other wise yes 3S.

Why did I raise 3S to 4? 3Nt is an option, but both partner and I thought 4S trump best to not lose transportation.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-22, 03:07, said:

Oh yikes, so opener now also bids 3NT over 3♠, having not even the expected doubleton in support? How does responder set spades as trumps over 3NT?

He cues, Q is as good as xx opposite virtually almost all holdings.

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-21, 03:18, said:

• mw64ahw broke out a specialised gadget, bidding 2♣-2♦; 3♥-4♠; 5♠-? where 3♥ showed exactly 1=4=4=4 - quite high for a 19-count when partner had no room to contribute. 4♠ was a slam try setting spades, and 5♠ showed odd keycards and the queen. Unfortunately I think this is too high for partner to make an informed decision.

Not that specialised - its been around as an option with a Multi-2♦ for years.
I've just swapped strong ♦ into the Multi-2♦ and use 3♦-3♠ after 2♣-2♦ for the strong 4441.
Here it is at the low end of acceptability, but Chris Ryall reckons 16+ works with good controls and I find its sometimes works better than going the unbalanced ♦ route.
I gave you the basics above:
After 2♣-2♦-3♥
3♠-3N
4♠ is a sign-off
with
4♠ a basic slam try

but there are also
4N+ as slam tries
plus
3♠-3N
4N+ as slam tries
depending on what responder is looking to show/protect.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-22, 02:32, said:

Do keep in mind opener was already first to bid spades (and NT), as your start of the auction was 1♣-1♥; 1NT-2♥; 2♠.
Over 4♦ partner will commit to slam, though I'm not sure how to best investigate which slam and small versus grand. If you choose 4♥ instead partner will bid 4♠, allowing you to bid 5♦ next as described.
I think we'll get to the rest of the auction and the slam choice once I reveal partner's hand, and you can tell me how partner might have bid on this auction.

I was aware of that, lol. I meant that knowing I’d be declarer in spades encourages me to choose the slightly aggressive 3S over the regressive 3N. The reason we then need 4H as a further transfer is so he can keycard with the right hand. Bidding 4N over either 2S or 3 N would be quantitative. Thus he’s never had a chance to use keycard and, while he usually would not want to use keycard before any control bidding, usually is not always

[akwoo]

My 2/1 weak NT partnership starts 1D-1S-2N-3H(*)-3S. Partner's options here are 3N, choice of games, and 4 level bids set spades and show a control.

(*)3H was a transfer.

My Precision partnership starts 1C-1H(*)-1N(*). 1N asks for control count (A=2, K=1), responses being 2C=0-2, 2D=3, 2H=4, 2S=5, (2N is special and irrelevant here) 3C=6, et c. Given what you've told me, I'm expecting the auction to start 1C-1H-1N-2?-2N-3H-3N, where 1H shows 5+ spades (or a hand that would rebid 2N over 1N) and 3H shows 6+ spades and 0-3 hearts. If partner pulls 3N to the 4 level, they are showing (first or second round) control. Partner also had the option of splintering to the 4 level over 1N.

[pescetom]

Late to this one.
I too would bid 1D then over 1S reverse into 2H. In my better partnerships the cheapest reverse promises one of several strong hands, although unfortunately not this one But I would bid it nevertheless. If partner can bid the 2NT positive relay then I bid 3C (fourth suit) to indicate the natural reverse, over a weak 3S I bid 4S (benefiting from the inferences of not hearing 1D-2S).

By one of those weird short circuits that characterize bridge forums, we encountered a similar but less strong 1444 hand in the club same day, and it caused intense traffic in our technical discussion. I'll post it in a separate thread to avoid confusion here.