[pescetom]

This interesting pair of hands came up in our weakest club game, unfortunately.

MP

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How would it realistically have gone (with opponents silent) in your usual partnership and are you happy with that?

[jillybean]

Delete!

[mikeh]

pescetom, on 2026-February-27, 13:46, said:

This interesting pair of hands came up in our weakest club game, unfortunately.

MP

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How would it realistically have gone (with opponents silent) in your usual partnership and are you happy with that?

Silent opps: 2C 2D 2 H 2S 2N 3D 3H 4H….

2C easy. While I like bidding shape, this is far too strong for 1C then 2S.

2D waiting. Matters not whether it promises values.

2H birthright. Either primary hearts, single or two suited, or various very strong notrump hands. 2N would be 22-23 but this hand is too strong for that. The 5th club and astounding number of controls make it a good 24 to me.

2S is forced, playing birthright

2N is 24-25 balanced.

3D transfer . The hand has too much slam potential for the alternative of 4D, Texas

3H denies a super Max with 4 card support

4H: 6+ hearts, some slam interest.

This hand is a trap for those who think 4321 is the be-all and end-all for counting hcp. . They’d think…I already upgraded once…since I showed 24-25, I’m done now because I only have 23. Compare to, say, KQxx AJx KJx AKQ. Look at the trick taking potential of these two 23 counts. While knowing partner’s hand is hard to ignore, I hope everyone can see that our actual hand is a full trick (or more) better in terms of playing strength. Give partner a 3=3=4=3 zero count and we have good play for 3N on our actual hand whereas we could be held to 5 or 6 tricks on that ‘other 23’.

More sophisticated players realize that it’s virtually impossible for west to have slam interest with no diamond control. We have, literally, every other Ace and King.

I’d really like to explore grand…it is trivial to construct hands where 7H is virtually cold. Say xx QJxxxx Axx Jxx: 14 likely winners. But maybe he would bid more aggressively with that.

Note I don’t want to be in grand at imps opposite his actual hand…too. Too much risk of a heart loser.

However, I can’t think of any way to find out if he has what we need. So I’ll give up on grand and just bid 6H. Do I bid this thinking that it’s cold? No. But do I bid this because I expect it to have good play almost all of the time? Yes. Obviously a diamond lead and/or bad breaks could lead to a set but I want to be there.

[Cyberyeti]

I agree with pretty much everything Mike has said, although our system is different and 2♦ is negative rather than waiting. The only hand partner can have where 7 is good, is what he has with ♣J so we just bid 6, although 7 is not terrible as it is, needs J♥ coming down and clubs 4-3 or J10 tight, clearly not good enough to bid but not a complete disaster (unless you're at a club where many are not in 6).

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-February-27, 13:46, said:

This interesting pair of hands came up in our weakest club game, unfortunately.

MP

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How would it realistically have gone (with opponents silent) in your usual partnership and are you happy with that?

I hate this hand, smile

I am biased seeing both hands
So many decisions to make, by both partners.

I would probably push to Seven. But at the risk of ending up in 5 or 6 and going down if partner was a bit weaker.

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2026-February-27, 14:16, said:

More sophisticated players realize that it’s virtually impossible for west to have slam interest with no diamond control.

Suspect this was ironic, but the same reasoning saved the day for me mentoring a beginner
I took a deep breath and opened 2♣, it went something like:
2♣ - 3♥
6♥ - P

By choice, we have not yet tackled control-bids or keycards or effective schemes over a strong 2♣, so I was pleased that partner bid her hand and achieved a joint top (most being in 4♥+2, plus a disastrous 6NT-4 and an unlikely 6♠-2).

[mw64ahw]

After 2♣-2♦-2N (22-24) playing reverse birthright. The long route is 20-21

As West with 8.5 mod. losers I consider the slam from the off.
A KC, Q♥ & singleton without forgetting the 6-card suit is enough to warrant the try.

Texas would be a sign-off so going through 3♦ and raising 3♥ to 4♥ taking the slow route is a slam try initiating KC/control showing.

• 4♠ shows even KCs. Now 5♠ indicates all KCs plus the Q♥. Higher bids would deny the Q♥ and show an alternative value.
• 5N K♠ starts looking for the grand already able to count 12 tricks barring a bad ♥ break.
• 6♥ signs-off with nothing further to show.
• Hopefully opener is awake enough not to convert to 6N

Note: After 3♥ I also have 3♠ with one partner as a relay to show x5(5x) leaving cue-bids for ♥ above 3N. This may facilitate 7♥, but I doubt we'd get there.
3N would show 45xx.
55xx goes through 3♣

[akwoo]

I agree with mikeh up to the 4♥ bid, but I'd bid 4N (spade control; we're playing kickback so 4♠ would be 1430) just in case partner did not have a diamond control. Also, it gives us some ways to get to 7 (though not on this hand)

[DavidKok]

My start of the auction is the same to 2NT: 2♣-2♦; 2♥-2♠; 2NT showing 24-25 balanced. I think there are already four points of note:

• I play Birthright, like several other posters here.
  
• I chose to represent the hand as balanced despite being semibalanced, because bidding clubs on a strong auction is awful.
  
• The great clubs and all those aces and kings make the hand worth an upgrade to 24-25. In fact, it's closer to 26.
  
• I chose not to open a Dutch Doubleton 1♣, which would also be permissible with this strength and shape - partner will only pass with a weak hand with long clubs, which is unlikely, and I can represent this hand as a game-forcing clubs-spades hand by jump rebidding 2♠. I think treating this hand as balanced is superior, but the Dutch Doubleton auction might be interesting as well.

Over 2NT my auction is a little different. West would rebid 4♣ in my system, showing a slam interest hand with 6(+) hearts. If West chose to bid 3♦ instead, East's proper response in my system is 3NT - a 3♥ bid would show 3(+) cards in the heart suit. However, I think the paths converge soon after. Over West's 4♣ East can bid 4♦, positive. I agree with mikeh that this is again a pivotal point, East has to realise that their hand is very strong for a heart slam even in the 24-25 range.

Saving some ink and giving the full auction I would bid:

2♣-2♦;
2♥-2♠;
2NT-4♣;
4♦-4♥;
4♠-5♦;
5♠-6♥;
P

On this auction I think 5♦ need not promise the ace of diamonds - West's hand is so limited that demanding an ace seems like an inefficient use of bidding space. As a result, I'm not confident that East's 5♠ try, looking for a grand slam, is warranted. As West I'd sign off - we've shown the whole hand already (6 hearts, diamond control, mild slam interest facing 24-25 balanced), but it's a bit murky.
With both hands visible the grand slam is a poor proposition - we need the jack of hearts to drop in three rounds (i.e. hearts 3-2 or a singleton jack) and then we have chances for a 13th trick with clubs splitting 4-3 or a squeeze. On a diamond lead our double squeeze chances vanish and we also have to deal with the blockade in hearts (so win the ♦A, cash two rounds of hearts, then club ace and a club ruff which has a small but present extra losing case of a singleton club with the third heart).


As a little bonus, the Dutch Doubleton auction would start 1♣-2♥ showing 4-8 with 6(+)♥, over which opener can bid 2NT to ask for more information and I would treat the West hand as a maximum with a poor suit, bidding 3♥ in my methods. After this East needs to find a way to push to slam (I'd start with a 3♠ control bid), and it seems that we have an easier and cheaper auction this time. In practice I'd expect an opponent to be in the auction over such a cheap opening as 1♣ though, and also we got a bit lucky with the hand. If you think the West hand is a minimum in the 4-8 range (a 6hcp hand is nominally in the weaker half of the range by frequency) East should still probe for slam, but it gets a bit more complicated.

[pescetom]

With normal partner it might go something like this for us:

__ 2♣
2♦ - 2♥
2♠ (obliged) - 2N (24-25)
3♦ (transfer) - 3♥
4♣ (CTL ♣!♠, SI) - 4♦ (CTL ♠) [EDIT:typo fixed]
5♦ (CTL ♦, odd) - 5♠ (CTL ♠)
6♥ (♥Q, !CTL ♣♦) - P

We too would start with Birthright to 24-25 (West had an exotic transfer sequence to show hearts, but the suit is too weak here).
West would (I hope, but it's hard to say having seen the hand) want to show mild slam interest and so transfer the hearts then control-bid the clubs, which gets off his chest three quarters of what needs to be said about the hand (in our NT subsystem 4m here shows 6+ cards and control, not suit).
After that we would control-bid up the line with Turbo as usual, with East learning about ♠xxx ♥Qxxxxxx ♦Axx ♣x.
The only really tricky decision is by East after 6♥ promising the Q: is it justified to risk the grand?
He knows nothing about ♥J and a diamonds lead makes things tricky... I think I would chicken out, especially as I have to play it

[DavidKok]

There's several bids in that auction that don't make sense to me. Does 4♣ set hearts? What do we bid with a hearts-clubs two-suiter? And why does East sign off in 4♥ after learning of a slam try with long hearts opposite? And why does West bid on after getting two rounds of bad news (no superaccept, immediate signoff) having already stretched a bit to make a slam try?

[pescetom]

Here is the full layout.

MP

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A chill to the heart of anyone hoping for grand.

[DavidKok]

It takes a diamond lead to defeat 7♥ on a double squeeze, though to make you need to cash two rounds of spades before ruffing a club to get to the West hand after drawing two rounds of hearts. Maybe it's the best chance single dummy (risking going down if spades are 5-1 while clubs are 4-3), I'm not sure - but definitely not easy to find. Most of our auctions have East bidding hearts first, and I'm not sure that South has an indicated diamond lead. Maybe North should double something along the way.
That being said I'd rather be in the small slam. In practice that's likely 80%+ already.

Edit: My spade action is not necessary, West's ♠4 can function as the threat card for the double squeeze. My mistake, and that makes it an 'automatic' line as it combines all chances at 13 tricks.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-28, 11:02, said:

There's several bids in that auction that don't make sense to me. Does 4♣ set hearts? What do we bid with a hearts-clubs two-suiter? And why does East sign off in 4♥ after learning of a slam try with long hearts opposite? And why does West bid on after getting two rounds of bad news (no superaccept, immediate signoff) having already stretched a bit to make a slam try?

Yes, 4♣ sets 6+ hearts. As I said, a lot of 5M hands go through our Stayman, which adds definition to the transfers. Over any level of 2NT I feel the bang for buck choice is to go for the 6 card major and then control-bid below game level, rather than show a natural minor suit at a level where it is uncomfortably high to fit the minor and may not be decisive information for slam in the major.
The 4♥ was a typo, thanks, now fixed.
Will add some explanations to the auction when I have time.

[mike777]

Unfortunately North will have a couple of opportunities to double for a diamond lead

[pescetom]

mike777, on 2026-February-28, 14:00, said:

Unfortunately North will have a couple of opportunities to double for a diamond lead

Maybe even three opportunities... it's an interesting question what repeated or delayed doubles should mean.
After a more nebulous auction might you have led T of spades rather than diamonds?

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-February-28, 15:26, said:

Maybe even three opportunities... it's an interesting question what repeated or delayed doubles should mean.
After a more nebulous auction might you have led T of spades rather than diamonds?

Against the grand slam, no.