[FrancesHinden]

This reminded me of a problem I had during the Brighton teams.

Scoring: IMP

2♦ P 2♥ 4NT
P ?

---

2♦ = multi
You passed over this, deciding you were a little light for a double (13-15 bal).
Parnter's 4NT definitely is for the minors. You haven't discussed the strength in huge detail, but his only sensible alternatives would be to bid a minor at the 3-level or make a take-out double.

Are you worth a slam?

[Free]

V vs NV, yes we're ready for slam. Not grand I guess, but just a small slam...

[Blofeld]

Think I'm going to push to slam here.

Will 5♥ be asking partner to pick a minor? Or would 5NT be better?

[Al_U_Card]

Blofeld, on Sep 13 2005, 11:43 AM, said:

Will 5♥ be asking partner to pick a minor? Or would 5NT be better?

Has ♥ been established as the weak 2 suit yet? Hopefully pard will not think it is natural, although as a q-bid showing equal minors it has its merits , except when pard is 0-3-5-5 and he starts to think........

[whereagles]

I'm gonna pass 4NT. LOL.

[mike777]

5NT

FTL=13-3+(2 or +1)
13=total tricks, minus 3 =combined 2 shortest suit, 25-27 whcp =plus 2, 22-24 whcp =plus one.

I am influenced to bid the slam since I believe partner bid 4nt assuming only 7 working hcp in my hand, hopefully I have 12 .

[Al_U_Card]

Pard is (perhaps) expecting a random 7 count from you. You have the world's fair (albeit somewhat wasted major suit values but a confirmed double fit and possibly 9 cards in Clubs). Surely you can see either suit making slam since he was ready to play in 5 with whatever losers in the majors that he had and no guarantee of support values from you. Bid 5NT and relax.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Sep 13 2005, 10:26 AM, said:

Your problems are so disgustingly hard...

I'm going to just bid 5C. My minor suit holdings are just awful, so I'm taking the low road. Partner is under some pressure to get us to the right suit, and I wouldn't fault a 4N bid at all on a hand like x x AKxxx AKxxxx or x x AKxxx KQJxxx. Of course, he could have a better hand that makes a slam.

I mentioned in another post that I am reading that the top class players are using 2 suited bids less and simply overcalling.

Justin mentioned something about Bart Bramley using 4nt as blackwood not 2-suited in jump situations. Is this one where 4nt would be blackwood?

If so, perhaps the overcall with these example hands is more productive?

[Al_U_Card]

Having that 2nd suit in reserve can always be helpful (both ways). The 2 suit showing overcalls are great when you are 5-6(lower ranking) as pard will take the preference there.

Do you think that after your pass (confirming less than 13 hcp as stipulated) pard may be sacrificing on some shapely minimum?

[mikeh]

Partner will be bidding in the expectation that you hold values, partly because the opps' auction tends to suggest a relative lack of values (yes, I know that responder could hold a goodish hand with short ♥, which is why I used the word 'suggest' rather than 'show') and partly because it is usually better to bid optimistically rather than pessimistically.

That latter point suggests committing to slam (I'd use 5N to force partner to bid his 6 card suit if 65), but one can have too much of a good thing. The partner first to act under pressure should bid optimistically, his partner should bid pessimistically.

I agree (yet again: this is getting boring) with Justin. Your cards are not a powerful as, for example, a hand with fewer hcp but better distribution both of shape and high cards. Give me Axxx Axx Qxxx Jx and I would happily commit to slam.

BTW, 5♥ is a cue bid here: you cannot logically hold a suit that you can introduce as trump at the 5-level on this auction. But for me, 5♥ or 5♠ should be grand slam tries of some sort: exactly what the distinction is, I do not know. It would be the type of question I would raise in the bar after the game and, with any but a long-term serious partner, promptly forget.

As to 5♣ rather than 5♦, there is a 'law' that suggests, paradoxically, that it is sometimes better to play in the weaker trump suit, but I don't think that that law applies here . So I would bid 5♦ (aha... I disagree with Justin) but I certainly do not feel strongly about it.

[the hog]

whereagles, on Sep 14 2005, 05:35 AM, said:

I'm gonna pass 4NT. LOL.

Hmm scoreup could be interesting opposite:
x
xx
KQT9x
AKQJx

-1370, -200. Sorry guys, 12 tricks are easier than 9.

[FrancesHinden]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 13 2005, 03:49 PM, said:

Having that 2nd suit in reserve can always be helpful (both ways). The 2 suit showing overcalls are great when you are 5-6(lower ranking) as pard will take the preference there.

Do you think that after your pass (confirming less than 13 hcp as stipulated) pard may be sacrificing on some shapely minimum?

Just to clarify: you haven't denied 13 HCP, you've denied a balanced hand with 13 HCP.

Something like Axxx x KQxx Axxx would pass over 2D then double hearts for take-out (your diamond length makes it unlikely 2D will be passed out).

[whereagles]

So how do you bid those two hands, hog? And how would you do it if pard has a more mundane

x
x
AQxxx
AJTxxx

[Fluffy]

If partner's got a 5-5 we rate to make 6 and 7 is possible, if he has 6-5 we will make 5, but 6 is possible, if he has 6-6 we won't even make game. all in all I think lam is too much, 5♦

[flytoox]

mikeh, on Sep 14 2005, 12:02 AM, said:

Partner will be bidding in the expectation that you hold values, partly because the opps' auction tends to suggest a relative lack of values (yes, I know that responder could hold a goodish hand with short ♥, which is why I used the word 'suggest' rather than 'show') and partly because it is usually better to bid optimistically rather than pessimistically.

That latter point suggests committing to slam (I'd use 5N to force partner to bid his 6 card suit if 65), but one can have too much of a good thing. The partner first to act under pressure should bid optimistically, his partner should bid pessimistically.

I agree (yet again: this is getting boring) with Justin. Your cards are not a powerful as, for example, a hand with fewer hcp but better distribution both of shape and high cards. Give me Axxx Axx Qxxx Jx and I would happily commit to slam.

BTW, 5♥ is a cue bid here: you cannot logically hold a suit that you can introduce as trump at the 5-level on this auction. But for me, 5♥ or 5♠ should be grand slam tries of some sort: exactly what the distinction is, I do not know. It would be the type of question I would raise in the bar after the game and, with any but a long-term serious partner, promptly forget.

As to 5♣ rather than 5♦, there is a 'law' that suggests, paradoxically, that it is sometimes better to play in the weaker trump suit, but I don't think that that law applies here . So I would bid 5♦ (aha... I disagree with Justin) but I certainly do not feel strongly about it.

I like this analysis and I vote for 5D too.

[Al_U_Card]

mikeh, on Sep 13 2005, 07:02 PM, said:

The partner first to act under pressure should bid optimistically, his partner should bid pessimistically.

Well said. The quote is interesting. Please elaborate on the pros and cons of this method versus the other way around.