[han]

Teams, white against red.

A9xx
J10x
J9
Qxxx

(1S) - 2D - (p) - p
(2S) - Dbl - (p) - ??

[helene_t]

If p has the prototypical 1363 then we must be in 3♦ (at least according to the LOTT) and p would probably bid 3♣ if I scramble with 2NT. So 3♦, without great conviction.

[Sambolino]

why is 1363 protopypical and not 1453 or 1354?

i want to play 3c even in moysian because i won't be forced to ruff in hand with longer trumps.

i guess the other question here intended may be "is this worth a game try?"

[FrancesHinden]

Sambolino, on Jul 8 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

why is 1363 protopypical and not 1453 or 1354?

Because 1453 or 1354 would have doubled 1S.

I don't play lebensohl in this position (I play 2NT as two places to play, though arguably natural is quite a good meaning) so I just bid 3D.

[skjaeran]

What do you expect partner to bid with xx Kx AKQxxx AJx?

That's more in line with what I'd expect partner to hold for this bidding - a strong overcall.

I'm bidding 3NT.

[Sambolino]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 8 2008, 06:21 AM, said:

Sambolino, on Jul 8 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

why is 1363 protopypical and not 1453 or 1354?

Because 1453 or 1354 would have doubled 1S.

I don't play lebensohl in this position (I play 2NT as two places to play, though arguably natural is quite a good meaning) so I just bid 3D.

right, i was rash - although there are some 5431's you'd overcall rather than double

[helene_t]

Is there a distinction between a good 3♦ call and a bad 3♦ call (e.g. the good one direct and the bad one via 2NT?)

An alternative interpretation of 2NT followed by 3♦ could be hearts+diamond tolerance. Would that be a 5-card hearts (assuming that p's failure to dbl initially denied a 4-card hearts) or would it be a 4-card hearts (assuming that with five hearts we could just bid them now) ?

[Codo]

Haralds 3 NT is enterprissing, I don`t believe that my partner can deliver 7.5 tricks for his overcall and later double. So I try 2 NT.

[andy_h]

I like 3D.

[gnasher]

helene_t, on Jul 8 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

An alternative interpretation of 2NT followed by 3♦ could be hearts+diamond tolerance.

That was my immediate assumption, but it's problematic.

If we're going to try to find a heart fit using a "two places to play" 2NT, 2NT-3♦ has to promise enough hearts for advancer to bid hearts himself. Hence, over 2NT, if overcaller has a 1=3=6=3 shape he has to bid 3♣. Is that a good idea?

[mikeh]

skaeran, on Jul 8 2008, 06:37 AM, said:

What do you expect partner to bid with xx Kx AKQxxx AJx?

That's more in line with what I'd expect partner to hold for this bidding - a strong overcall.

I'm bidding 3NT.

He MIGHT have that holding, but what would you have him do with x Kxx AKxxxx AJx? Pass 2♠? I can't see how that can be good bridge.

Partner's rarely have magic cards, so I bid 3♦.

[pclayton]

3♦ with a smart partner. I don't think 1453 / 1354 is possible - this hand bids 2N over 2♠. Pard is a huge favorite to hold 1363 here.

2N by me really should be 2♦/5♣.

[nige1]

han, on Jul 8 2008, 05:25 AM, said:

Teams, white against red.
A9xx
J10x
J9
Qxxx
(1S) - 2D - (p) - p
(2S) - Dbl - (p) - ??

IMO 2N=10, 3D=9, 3N=8, 3C=6, _P=2.

[skjaeran]

mikeh, on Jul 8 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

skaeran, on Jul 8 2008, 06:37 AM, said:

What do you expect partner to bid with xx Kx AKQxxx AJx?

That's more in line with what I'd expect partner to hold for this bidding - a strong overcall.

I'm bidding 3NT.

He MIGHT have that holding, but what would you have him do with x Kxx AKxxxx AJx? Pass 2♠? I can't see how that can be good bridge.

Partner's rarely have magic cards, so I bid 3♦.

I agree with you on the magic card part, of course.

Actually, I'd bid 2NT if that was natural. But having the agreement that 2NT is never natural, unless it IS, I doubt that's possible.

[kenrexford]

skaeran, on Jul 8 2008, 06:37 AM, said:

What do you expect partner to bid with xx Kx AKQxxx AJx?

That's more in line with what I'd expect partner to hold for this bidding - a strong overcall.

I'm bidding 3NT.

A downside to weak jump overcalls. I play weak jump overcalls, but I keep seeing that occasional problem described on BBF which would be easily solved with intermediate jump overcalls.

[han]

Partner had x KQxx AQ10xxx Ax. Opener has all the missing HCP so you make 3NT.

[benlessard]

IMO you must have a way to show values on this sequence. You should play 2Nt as scrambling only when there is no possibility of game but when game is possible you should play your favorite lebensohl setup.