[kenberg]

Scoring: IMP

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I was kibbing a hand where W opened a precision 1D. NS had a mix-up which needn't concern us. My question, for those of you with more experience than I have defending against precision: Typically, a 3D call by N shows something like what he has? Or if not, what is his call?

[rogerclee]

3♦ is preemptive unless you play 2♥ is michaels, in which case 3♦ is strong michaels. Edited because everyone told me I was wrong. Sorry.

There are three schools of thought on this:

2♦ = natural, 2♥ = michaels
2♦ = natural, 2♥ = normal
2♦ = michaels, 2♥ = normal

Any of these three agreements is basically fine, and it's up to you and your partner to decide which. The shorter their diamonds, the more likely I am to want to play the first or second defenses.

Playing the first two defenses I would just bid 2♦, playing the last I would pass and then bid diamonds next.

[pclayton]

Adding to Clee; if 2♥ is Michaels (my preference), it should be non-forcing Michaels and made with a hand that won't be unhappy if pard passes.

3♦ can be played as a good Michaels hand.

[kenberg]

Thanks. I think I prefer the first option but I would play easily with any of them. Since balanced 12-14s, or thereabouts, get opened 1N in precision and unbalanced 12-14s are often opened 1M or 2C, I would expect that when I hold a decent hand and long diamonds then opener's diamonds will quite often be short, so a decent overcalling hand, such as the one in the example, would be fine.

[softcoder]

kenberg, on Nov 2 2008, 05:32 PM, said:

Thanks. I think I prefer the first option but I would play easily with any of them. Since balanced 12-14s, or thereabouts, get opened 1N in precision and unbalanced 12-14s are often opened 1M or 2C, I would expect that when I hold a decent hand and long diamonds then opener's diamonds will quite often be short, so a decent overcalling hand, such as the one in the example, would be fine.

Playing 12-14 NT in precision may be common but it is not standard.
Many precision pairs play 13-15 NT (per Berkowitz and Manley's book, Precision Today); some (Meckwell e.g.) play 14-16 per Barry Rigal's book Precision in the 90's.
I have not run across any (or any book) who play 12-14NT. (Which isn't to say there aren't some, just that it is not a default.)

a 1D Opener in Precision tends to show 2+ diamonds, and 11-15 HCP.
If 13-15 HCP it will be unbalanced, or semi-balanced.

[mycroft]

I have seen some Precision pairs open a 12-15 NT, and just pass the balanced 11s - that makes 1D unbalanced - pretty much "Diamonds or Clubs".

Edit: or, of course, Diamonds *and* Clubs...

[ArtK78]

I would pass over West's 1♦ opening and bid diamonds at my next opportunity.

I suspect that this is fairly normal, despite the fact that it hasn't been mentioned so far.

[awm]

I play different defenses depending on the meaning of 1♦.

If 1♦ is always 2+ diamonds (i.e. "natural or balanced") which is fairly standard in precision, then my defense is to treat it as a natural bid. I would pass 1♦ and come in with 2♦ at next opportunity. Obviously I would do the same if 1♦ is 3+♦ or 4+♦.

If 1♦ can be shorter than two (i.e. "matchpoint precision" or other methods where 1♦ includes unbalanced patterns with primary clubs and very few diamonds) then my defense is that 2♦ is natural (and there is no cuebid; 2♥ is natural and weak). In this case I would overcall 2♦.

It's constantly amusing to me that people are so in love with their michaels cuebid. I've dropped this convention entirely in several of my partnerships and cannot remember a single board where we've lost by being forced to overcall 1♠ instead of bidding michaels.

[Free]

(1♦) - 2♦ - (?) - 3♦

[jdonn]

One thing that seems to go undiscussed is after the natural 2♦ overcall, how does partner make a limit raise of diamonds? You might use 2NT for that but especially in America where 2NT is usually natural on these auctions it's worth discussing.

[awm]

jdonn, on Nov 5 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

One thing that seems to go undiscussed is after the natural 2♦ overcall, how does partner make a limit raise of diamonds? You might use 2NT for that but especially in America where 2NT is usually natural on these auctions it's worth discussing.

My rule is that after a natural 2♦ overcall, 3♣ is the "cuebid." Normally opener would've opened 1♣ or 1♦ playing standard methods, and the fact that I have a zillion diamonds points towards opener having a natural club suit.

[kenberg]

In this particular case, the 1D bid showed either one or more diamonds or zero or more diamonds, I forget which. And I am not sure what a 1N would have shown had the bid been made. Some sort of weak NT surely but how weak I dunno.

What I get out of this is that there are a variety of approaches over the Precision 1D and unfortunately some of them depend on exactly what form of Precision is being used.

I have long ago accepted that when a non-precision auction begins 1C-pass-1H (or obvious variants on this) then 2H (and 2C) should be natural. I am not sure I want to sign on to Adam's thought that the same applies second hand with a minor opening, Precision D or Standard C or D, although it may be that the logic is even stronger there. Give up Michaels entirely? Wouldn't I have trouble with anti-blasphemy laws?

[kenrexford]

awm, on Nov 5 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 5 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

One thing that seems to go undiscussed is after the natural 2♦ overcall, how does partner make a limit raise of diamonds? You might use 2NT for that but especially in America where 2NT is usually natural on these auctions it's worth discussing.

My rule is that after a natural 2♦ overcall, 3♣ is the "cuebid." Normally opener would've opened 1♣ or 1♦ playing standard methods, and the fact that I have a zillion diamonds points towards opener having a natural club suit.

Good point.

[MFA]

I'm used to "school 3", 2♦ Michaels and 2♥ natural.
This means, obviously, that one has to pass the actual hand and hope to back in with 2♦ later. This then shows a normal strength overcall in diamonds.