[CSGibson]

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Question: How do you approach this hand?

We open most 11 counts in a 2/1 based system. If you bid 4♦, partner is going to look at his hand and sign off with no outside first round controls, and probably no 2nd round control of ♣. Are you worth one more try after that?

If so, and you ask for keycards, do you go to slam missing a keycard?

[mikeh]

I admit I would bid a simple 3N unless playing last train, in which case I bid 4♦ and respect partner's non 4♥ sign-off.

We don't preempt over a preempt, so a minimum gf 4♠ hand bids 4♠. 4♦ won't usually be as control rich as this hand, but will usually have better trump, so that's not a big deal. If he can't muster 4♥, as last train, I'm done.

Not playing LTTC, I wouldn't bid 4♦ since, as the OP observes, partner will virtualy always signoff.

As for the idea of using keycard after partner signs off in 4♠, that strikes me as a sick joke. Using keycard when one cannot count tricks after the response is a common mistake.

Picture: AQJ10xx Qx x Q10xx......slam is reasonable on the auction, or KQJxx KJx xx QJx: slam is horrible....can you tell the difference via keycard?

[andy_h]

I would always bid 4D to show a good raise to 4S (more than a standard limit raise that would jump 4S directly). It would be perfect if partner has a 4H last train available but if that's not the case I am still bidding 4D because even though partner is lacking a few Aces, he could have a distributional hand and may be able to commit to the five level. I mean, if he's looking at non-Ace cards with say a diamond shortage then it's pretty likely that we'll be in possession of a few of those Aces if we are showing a good raise. 3NT may be our last making spot (since our three little trumps is horrible) but with this effective 15 count and three card support I think I am totally mis-describing our hand by not telling partner about our good hand with spade support.

[l milne]

I think 4♦ is the bid. I too am initially attracted by 3NT, as it will very likely make. But we are covering most of partner's losers in the minors as well as a control in hearts and trump finesses through the preemptor's partner - it looks like we will make quite a few tricks in spades.

Even with no LTTC agreement, I think opener should still bid 4♥ with some hands that don't contain a heart control but are still interested in slam - makes the whole auction a lot easier and might divert a heart lead, which adds some positive weight to factor in against the negative effects of deceiving partner. One example of a "fake last train" hand might be something like

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NB: I think most of the hands that fit this bidding pattern will have (very) strong trumps, as is it quite hard to construct a hand where we want to suggest slam without a heart control or good trumps. Also, good trumps mean that we can be optimistic about slam, as we know partner has made a try probably looking at 3 or 4 small.

[l milne]

as an aside, I would bid 3NT with the same shape and bad trumps on a 16 count with slow diamond tricks and few aces, say something like:

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Now the chance of 3NT making is still high (and the dangers associated with playing in spades are still there) but the chance of missing a vul slam has gone down substantially.

[Free]

I would just bid 3NT actually, not completely happy about it but I don't like 4♦...

[dake50]

A+A+A+K = 7 of 12 controls.
I got to get partner to see S:AQ109xx H:Kx D:x C:Qxx is slamming.
4D and key-ask next.

[han]

CSGibson, on 2010-November-30, 09:52, said:

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If you bid 4♦, partner is going to look at his hand and sign off with no outside first round controls, and probably no 2nd round control of ♣.

Are we playing with an absolute beginner? If so I'd bid 3NT because I probably play them better. If not, partner won't sign off with a good hand, strong trumps and something useful outside. If you already know what answers you want, why do you ask the question?

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Are you worth one more try after that?

I don't think so. At this point going down at the 5-level is more likely than finding a slam.

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If so, and you ask for keycards, do you go to slam missing a keycard?

"One more try" and "ask for keycards" should never come together like this. Also see mikeh's post.

[han]

By the way, I think 3NT is quite reasonable but like lmilne I think the chance of finding a good slam is too large. If I had to pick a game it would be 3NT.

[dake50]

Pick 13 from S:AKQJ H:KQJ C:QJ to fail slammy.
Then convince me that wasn't a contrived exercise: "I can do it!"
I'm always making two pushes on this hand.
I could get discouraging to key-ask and quit 5S.
But I'll wager 6S= much more common than 5S-1.

[mfa1010]

4♦, showing a sound GF raise, and then quit. There are a lot of crappy openers that make the 5 level ridiculous, so no heroics.

[MrAce]

Too many Aces and a King, only bad thing is 3 small ♠, but other good stuff overwhelming. I would bid 4♦. I definetely will pass if pd is not interested.

[Fluffy]

What l milne & han said