[cherdano]

rogerclee, on 2011-January-18, 11:09, said:

Double, I think people are over-estimating how good slam will be opposite random 12-14 balanced hands. This is an auction where RHO is often void in a suit, or the first two tricks can go ace and a ruff. It's not that surprising in this situation to go down at the 6 level due to bad breaks. We could also just not have enough firepower to make anything at the 6 level, we do have a 12 count after all.

5N can work, I don't think it's terrible, in fact it's probably good opposite diamond 1 suiters and hands with 4M+5♦, but I am just not that optimistic.

That's all true, but I still think it depends on RHO. 1♦-4♣ is a great preempt, so there is little reason to stretch to bid 5♣. If RHO has a 9-card suit with no trump loser, we are getting only 300 (or +100 if we do lack an outside ace). If RHO is 8410 we are probably also getting +300 only.
So it might be the percentage play to bid to a 30% small slam, and it probably is percentage to bid a 40% small slam. If RHO would bid 5♦ with 8320 or 8311 hands, then we should probably double.

[MrAce]

I think the general style of preempter is very important here. I am used to play vs extremely agressive and unpredictable preempters, and if thats the case i think DBL stands in high priority for me. However this preempt was made by an North American player, way too predictable (eventhough that was the first time we played against him) compared to someone from europe...But all of this is just my personal opinion.

I was the one who opened 1♦ and my pd, bid 6♦ !!!

And i held (spots can be wrong, but they are irrelevant)

---

Lead was ♣ K and ♦ 4-2, ♥ 4-0 (o with preempt hand) and i had an easy run for 12 tricks. Interesting enough, 6♥ was not makeable( not even with 2-2 ♥). And in other room, responder bid 6♣ and my hand bid 6♦ for a push

Double would collect +300 not as fancy as +920 but definetely better than -100 if u chose the wrong slam, as some of u mentioned in your replies.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2011-January-18, 10:36, said:

Sorry I wasn't perhaps clear: I asked about responder's double, not opener.

If your partner opens 1♦ and RHO bids 5♣ and you hold

ATxx
KQxx
KTx
xx

do you pass?

And I replied to this, yes, this is not a good hand. Give partner KQJx, AJ10x, Jxx, Jx and we're making nothing and we haven't beaten 5♣ yet (give RHO x,x,xx,AKQ10xxxxx). If we're making a slam, partner will do something. If we're making 5M he may do something, we might miss 300 as I suspect we do here.

On the actual hand we'd play 5♥ or 5♣X, I suspect 6♦ is not very good if one opponent is known to hold 8 or more clubs, as ♦ are really quite likely to be 5-1.

[gwnn]

Right, I misread your post. Thanks, I was just wondering. I personally couldn't stand passing with that hand, but that's only me. I think it's a little pessimistic to give partner the exact same distribution as us.

[MrAce]

ATxx
KQxx
KTx
xx

If my pd passes over 5♣ with this, after i open 1♦...or after i open anything at 1 level...he better be running good or ugly things will happen. Even when they are making doubled with 2 overtricks.

[gwnn]

MrAce, on 2011-January-18, 19:54, said:

Even when they are making doubled with 2 overtricks.

Light opener, are you?

[Cyberyeti]

MrAce, on 2011-January-18, 19:54, said:

ATxx
KQxx
KTx
xx

If my pd passes over 5♣ with this, after i open 1♦...or after i open anything at 1 level...he better be running good or ugly things will happen. Even when they are making doubled with 2 overtricks.

I don't like passing this, but it means when I do double, partner expects something closer to the original hand. Particularly I don't X this with 2 small clubs and a minimum X. Put a club into the other suits and it becomes an automatic double.

[MrAce]

gwnn, on 2011-January-19, 04:54, said:

Light opener, are you?

Ahem !

[FrancesHinden]

MrAce, on 2011-January-18, 18:14, said:

I think the general style of preempter is very important here. I am used to play vs extremely agressive and unpredictable preempters, and if thats the case i think DBL stands in high priority for me. However this preempt was made by an North American player, way too predictable (eventhough that was the first time we played against him) compared to someone from europe...But all of this is just my personal opinion.

Yes. I wanted to vote "it depends on RHO"

[gszeszycki]

I am a firm believer in using space whenever possible. Once the opps make a large preempt it is
impossible to scientifically search for 7 (that means cue bids shwoing support at 6 level are a
waste). We are best served using what space we have to explore alternative small slams. Here we
have some leeway and I think 6c showing the 55 majors is the best way to approach this.
If p hates both majors they may be able to rebid 6d and we are happy with that also.


If p had opened 1c (and opps bid 5d) we would not have the option of bidding 6d since there is
no safe place like 6c to fall back on if no major suit fit).

The 5n overwhelming choice would be mine if P had opened 1C. Since they opened 1D I will make the extra try
for a major suit slam since it is SAFE. Nothing in the rule book says p has to be minimum and about the
only time I want to defend 5c is when p is minimum 2254 I will gamble that we have at least a small slam
and that is why I rule out x.