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Is there a scientific way of bidding this?

#1 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 02:16



Playing teams in a regional bracket 1 knockout finals, you've had a couple of adverse swings when this hand comes up in the first half of the match. Is there a scientific way to bid this hand, or do you just blast 6?


2nd part: a play problem in 6...



Lead is the 4, no pause for thought before the lead. Your line?
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#2 User is offline   dellache 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 03:10

 CSGibson, on 2011-February-25, 02:16, said:

2nd part: a play problem in 6...



Lead is the 4, no pause for thought before the lead. Your line?


There's no real hope of making if this is a (probable anyway) singleton lead, unless West has specifically KJxxxx xxxx Kx x.
So I'll just duck this to my queen, hoping for a doubleton lead, or maybe KJxxxx x Kxx Kxx, or maybe something else with 3-2 clubs.
FD
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 03:15

I can think of a complicated form of inviting in hearts using 2NT lebenshol followed by 3 as stayman with stopper, followed by 4 over 3NT or keycard if aprnter has 4 hearts at least, but this is very unsound so maybe just blasting 6 is better.
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 03:27

Doesn't everyone play
(2)
dbl-2NT
3-4
as a slam try?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 05:08

Well you could try to play west for 6-2-4-1. without the k of diamonds. Doesnt seem that unlikely. Take the ruffing diamond finesse to pitch a club and ruff all 3 of your spades in the dummy.

Still, many people, myself included, would underlead a K here without too much thought. Aggressive leads vs small slams seem to be less popular in the US, but they are the norm here I think.
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#6 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 06:57

 Fluffy, on 2011-February-25, 03:15, said:

I can think of a complicated form of inviting in hearts using 2NT lebenshol followed by 3 as stayman with stopper, followed by 4 over 3NT or keycard if partner has 4 hearts at least, but this is very unsound so maybe just blasting 6 is better.

Our own Justin Lall ( J-LO GIC )gives up the Stayman/no-stop sequence when the preemptor's suit is Spades.
He uses that sequence to guarantee 5 cards Hts, slammish and to start a cuebidding sequence:
(2) -
X - 2NT!
3 - 3!

Now there is room for partner to cuebid 4
Don Stenmark
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( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#7 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 08:00

I know most play Lebensohl, but apparently many include slam hands into the Leb sequence. This makes it very similar to good-bad-2NT, which is pretty perfect for such hands.
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 08:37

 gnasher, on 2011-February-25, 03:27, said:

Doesn't everyone play
(2)
dbl-2NT
3-4
as a slam try?


Looks good to me.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Karen Walker's website uses the following direct-cuebid as a one-suited slamtry:
( 2 ) -
X - 3!
??

If the Doubler had a Sp-stop, he would bid 3NT;
then Advancer would bid 4/4/4 as a one-suited slamtry.

Here, the doubler does not have a stop and would bid 4:
4 - 4 ( one-suited slamtry )

Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#9 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 09:04

 gnasher, on 2011-February-25, 03:27, said:

Doesn't everyone play
(2)
dbl-2NT
3-4
as a slam try?


Yes. But how is the doubler supposed to evaluate correctly? Will he know that x T98x Axxx AKJx is worth a ton, but x Txxx AKJx Axxx is not?
Chris Gibson
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#10 User is offline   dellache 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 11:42

 phil_20686, on 2011-February-25, 05:08, said:

Well you could try to play west for 6-2-4-1. without the k of diamonds. Doesnt seem that unlikely. Take the ruffing diamond finesse to pitch a club and ruff all 3 of your spades in the dummy.


Hmmm Phil, it doesn't work, does it ? :
1. If East has the Ten, he can overruf one of your spades ;
2. If West has the Tx, curiously enough, East can promote his partner's 10, if he defends correctly (your 64 is to small to prevent killing defense when you ruff the 3rd Spade : East can discard a Diamond and... :rolleyes: ).

Cheers.
FD
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 13:28

 CSGibson, on 2011-February-25, 09:04, said:

Yes. But how is the doubler supposed to evaluate correctly? Will he know that x T98x Axxx AKJx is worth a ton, but x Txxx AKJx Axxx is not?

No, but at least you'll get there if he has x 10xxx AKJx AKJx, and not go past game if he has your second example.

I don't think anyone can show hearts and a diamond shortage below 4.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 13:32

 dellache, on 2011-February-25, 11:42, said:

Hmmm Phil, it doesn't work, does it ? :
2. If West has the Tx, curiously enough, East can promote his partner's 10, if he defends correctly (your 64 is to small to prevent killing defense when you ruff the 3rd Spade : East can discard a Diamond and... :rolleyes: ).

We can ruff the small diamond before he gets a chance to do that: A, A, Q covered (say) and ruffed, A, spade ruff, J, diamond ruffed, spade.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   dellache 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 13:48

 gnasher, on 2011-February-25, 13:32, said:

We can ruff the small diamond before he gets a chance to do that: A, A, Q covered (say) and ruffed, A, spade ruff, J, diamond ruffed, spade.

Now he doesn't get a chance to do that, but you just go down.
If I'm correct, you have just reached (lead in dummy) :


You now lack an entry to your own hand, don't you ?
(or maybe we should claim at this point :))
FD
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 13:59

 dellache, on 2011-February-25, 13:48, said:

or maybe we should claim at this point

Yes, from where I got to that does seem the best play.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#15 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-February-25, 16:10

Yes you can play versions of lebensohl that allow you to make a slam try in hearts below 4H. Shooting it out with no methods is perfectly fine though imo.
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#16 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-February-26, 04:11

Anyone consider passing at these colours? 4 off looks pretty reasonable and you may not make 6H.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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