[MickyB]

gnasher, on 2011-April-14, 17:29, said:

it's probably OK in MickyB's system to open 1♦ and then raise to the three-level on these hands

It feels wrong to describe a 4-4-1-4 as unbal with M+D

[gnasher]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I assumed Mike was asking for suggestions as to how to handle these hands in his system. If the actual question was "I have a systemic way to bid 4414 13-counts. When I'm dealt a 4414 13-count, should I do what the system says, or something else?" then he already knows the answer.

MickyB said:

It feels wrong to describe a 4-4-1-4 as unbal with M+D

Maybe I was wrong. What question were you actually asking?

If your question was "Can you suggest a better way to handle 4414 shapes in my system?", then I am making two suggestions:
(a) With 11-13 4414, open 1♦ and raise to 2M
(b) With 11-13 4414, open 1♦ and raise to 2M unless you think you're too strong. Change the meaning of 1♦-1M;2NT from "unbal with M+D" to "unbal with M+D, or 4414 and too strong to raise to 2M"

If your question was "I have a systemic way to bid 4414 13-counts. When I'm dealt a 4414 13-count, should I do what the system says, or something else?" then see above.

[MickyB]

I think it's a bit much to expect me to know what question I was asking.

[gnasher]

As for this:

JLOGIC, on 2011-April-14, 17:55, said:

Unfortunately, I chose to answer the OP's question, where you, as so often, chose to change the rules of the question:

When a group of people start talking about one thing, it's not uncommon for that to lead them to talk about one or more related but different matters. That's commonly called a "conversation" or "discussion", and is often regarded as both productive and interesting, especially by members of internet discussion forums.

You can treat this forum as a sort of glorified quiz if you like, but I'm going to continue to use it to discuss bridge.

[Zelandakh]

Micky, I have a related question to you. When you hold a 13 count 4441 hand, I assume you open 1D - what do you rebid when the response is 1NT? If the answer is 2D then you are no worse off rebidding 2C over the 1C - 1S auction. If the answer is Pass then perhaps you already treat a 1m444 hand as semi-balanced and doing the same with 4414 is not such a stretch. As an aside I think that opening 1C with the weak NT and 1D with the stronger hand is more harmonious precisely for this reason, that it facilitates easier auctions with the much more common weak NT hand type.

[MickyB]

Zelandakh, on 2011-April-16, 03:50, said:

Micky, I have a related question to you. When you hold a 13 count 4441 hand, I assume you open 1D - what do you rebid when the response is 1NT? If the answer is 2D then you are no worse off rebidding 2C over the 1C - 1S auction. If the answer is Pass then perhaps you already treat a 1m444 hand as semi-balanced and doing the same with 4414 is not such a stretch. As an aside I think that opening 1C with the weak NT and 1D with the stronger hand is more harmonious precisely for this reason, that it facilitates easier auctions with the much more common weak NT hand type.

Yes, we'd open 1D and pass 1NT - same as we would with a 4351 13-count. Our auctions with 11-13 balanced are fine, thus I like to preempt a little more on these hands than 1C-P-1R transfer.