[the_dude]

---

IMPS

Who is getting to 4H on this hand?

This hand was played by a couple of my students and I have to explain it to them today. I feel that:

- South has a clear pass over 1S
- North has a very close call, I can understand both pass and X
- I would probably balance with 3H (still doesn't get us to 4H) but I understand pass too...

Am I getting too conservative in my old age? Perhaps I've written down -1100 too many times and I'm scarred...

[mgoetze]

I think I would bid 2♥ with South initially, but "blame" is surely too harsh here.

[billw55]

I would call 2♥, but I can live with pass. Balancing 3♥ seems more crucial though. The situation is different now: ops have shown limited values, ergo partner is marked with some, perhaps 6-12. The worst case scenario, doubled for a big number, is actually less likely now.

[Hanoi5]

I think North can double 2♠ as a take-out. South is lacking strength to overcall at the two level I think (the ♥J would make it easier and the ♥10 automatic).

Getting to game is not neccessarily correct. Two losers in spades and diamonds and a trump loser. I think N/S should be happy just to compete.

[P_Marlowe]

A 2H is fairly clearcut, at least for us.

North can make an OBAR reopening double, ..., if you have agreed to play OBAR bids.
I dont think South should balance with 3H, that can cost you your 1100.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

I'd overcall 2♥ with the South hand. If South passed, I'd Dbl with the north hand. They both deserve some blame imo.

[whereagles]

the_dude, on 2011-June-07, 05:41, said:

Perhaps I've written down -1100 too many times and I'm scarred...

The game is best played with joy. Your -1100's aren't the result of excessive boldness but of not applying the techniques correctly: there's a time to be frisky and a time to be quiet and it has to do with something called "Offense-to-Defense Ratio" - ODR. I suggest you read chapter 3 of Robson/Segal's book.

In your example, you could have bid 2♥, 3♣ or ♥. All these bids are safe because:

2♥ preempts LHO's responses of 1NT and 2m, so it presses him to overbid if he has some cards.
3♣ and 3♥ are totally safe because opps already found a fit - hence we should have one as well.

[mike777]

the_dude, on 2011-June-07, 05:41, said:

---

IMPS

Who is getting to 4H on this hand?

This hand was played by a couple of my students and I have to explain it to them today. I feel that:

- South has a clear pass over 1S
- North has a very close call, I can understand both pass and X
- I would probably balance with 3H (still doesn't get us to 4H) but I understand pass too...

Am I getting too conservative in my old age? Perhaps I've written down -1100 too many times and I'm scarred...




-----------


Prefer to just bid 2h right away and get this hand off my chest. That way I wont have to bal or worry about balancing later. Ya Ican go for 1100.

[jh51]

I don't know if I am getting to 4♥, but I think I have to compete.

I went to a lecture at the Louisville NABC where the speaker advised that at matchpoints, you never want to allow your opponents to play in 2 of a major after a 1M-2M auction. He said that since they have found a major suit fit, you are likely headed for a poor result if you let them play there undisterbed. And what are the possible consequences of competing?

You push them to the 3 level, and they make it. No change in your score.
You make your contract and you go plus instead of minus. Hurray
You go down in your contract, but less than they would have made in 2 of their major. Hurray
You go down in your contract by more than they would have made in 2 of their major. You get a 0/12 instead of 3/12.
You push them to the 3 level and they go down. Hurray.

At match points, he argued that competing wins far more often than passing.

I read something by Larry Cohen who said tht after 1M-2M, Marty Bergen would just close his eyes and bid something because he thought letting the opponents play undisterbed was so bad.

[P_Marlowe]

Yes - but even Bergen did to some degree respect the current colors
(we red, they green).

If you want to compete - it is safer after 1S, than after 2S.

If you go down -2, they dont need to double you at the given colors.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jmcw]

I want to bid with the South hand but would pass, mainly because I could go for a very large number.
I want to pass with the North hand but would Double, I think you have to be agressive over the fit, even at IMPS and adverse vulnerability

Would I bid 4♥ if partner doubled...I think yes, vulnerability is right and my 6 card suit just got huge.

If partner passes 2♠ I think I'm passing just too risky at IMPS...but its close

[MrAce]

I'd % 100 overcall 2♥, but even if i did not, i will not pass over 2♠. To me south gets all the blame for being too passive both times.

[hrothgar]

jh51, on 2011-June-07, 09:44, said:

I went to a lecture at the Louisville NABC where the speaker advised that at matchpoints, you never want to allow your opponents to play in 2 of a major after a 1M-2M auction. He said that since they have found a major suit fit, you are likely headed for a poor result if you let them play there undisterbed. And what are the possible consequences of competing?

I used to play against someone who believed much the same...

In his case, the the primary consequence from competing was a lot of sand bagging. I recall once raising partner's White on Red 1♠ opening to 2♠ holding a balanced 18 count with two spades.

Sure enough, the auction started

1♠ - (P) - 2♠ - (P)
P - (X)

That's when the fun started

[JLOGIC]

Not overcalling 2H is a complete joke. You have a good 6 card suit and 2 and a half quick tricks. If partner starts raising you or bidding 3N or doubling them, are you really unhappy?

1S 2H 2S 4H is an easy auction (or maybe north can cuebid to create a forcing pass, whatever).

[billw55]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-07, 11:45, said:

Not overcalling 2H is a complete joke. You have a good 6 card suit and 2 and a half quick tricks. If partner starts raising you or bidding 3N or doubling them, are you really unhappy?

I would call it an average 6 card suit. But as I said, I do make the 2♥ call.

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-07, 11:45, said:

If partner starts raising you or bidding 3N or doubling them, are you really unhappy?

I think the reason for not overcalling is the risk of unhappiness in 2♥x.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2011-June-07, 13:01, said:

I think the reason for not overcalling is the risk of unhappiness in 2♥x.

I cannot think of many hands that overcall 2H that are happy to play it there doubled. If that is our only metric then we would never overcall.

[cherdano]

gnasher, on 2011-June-07, 13:01, said:

I think the reason for not overcalling is the risk of unhappiness in 2♥x.

For every hand where LHO has us nailed there is (by symmetry of LHO and CHO) a hand where we catch a big fit with partner. Of course, there are also nice fits from partner (Kxxx) that don't make a penalty pass for LHO. And then there are hands where both of them have a fit for us, and it's a gain to overcall.

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-07, 13:12, said:

I cannot think of many hands that overcall 2H that are happy to play it there doubled. If that is our only metric then we would never overcall.

There are degrees of unhappiness. The risk of overcalling on AQ8xxx is rather greater than on AQ1098x, and the difference in the risk is greater than the difference in the potential gain.

Don't misunderstand me - I think 2♥ is normal. I was only pointing out that your post about what not to worry about didn't address the things that people were actually worried about.

[Lurpoa]

gnasher, on 2011-June-07, 14:37, said:

There are degrees of unhappiness. The risk of overcalling on AQ8xxx is rather greater than on AQ1098x, and the difference in the risk is greater than the difference in the potential gain.

Don't misunderstand me - I think 2♥ is normal. I was only pointing out that your post about what not to worry about didn't address the things that people were actually worried about.

I wouldn't blame partner if he overcall 2♥ , even if in your methods this promises a little more points...he has length to compensate.

Also N could/should prebalance with 3♣ (but again that depends on your methods).