[Hanoi5]

All white, you hold:

♠Kxx
♥Kx
♦AK9x
♣Axxx

Bidding goes:

Pa-1♦-Pa-1♥
X-???

1NT=15-17
2NT=18-19

What do you choose?

[Phil]

I would rather have a redouble available to show some type of strong hand.

Anyway, I would rebid 1N. RHO's double hasn't terribly improved my hand.

[JLOGIC]

What is the form of scoring?

1N, I toyed with pass in order to try and rightside NT (I assume I play weak NT and supp XXs) and/or rip them, but they are not vul so we are unlikely to get 200, and we are unlikely to get partner to bid NT ever anyways.

Quote

RHO's double hasn't terribly improved my hand.

Understatement of the year! RHOs double is quite bad for us obv. This hand is only a spotless 17 with no 5 card suit, it would become a great hand for a suit contract, but for NT it is not great and it looks like we have no suit to play so upgrading seems terribad.

[jonottawa]

The bridge gods would have given me a T if they wanted me to upgrade. 1N

[Free]

Lets see, I have 17HCP, 1NT shows 15-17, I'll follow the system. I don't see what part of this requires an advanced/expert player's opinion.

[whereagles]

really a 1NT wtp?

[FrancesHinden]

Free, on 2011-August-26, 05:25, said:

Lets see, I have 17HCP, 1NT shows 15-17, I'll follow the system. I don't see what part of this requires an advanced/expert player's opinion.

Well, because 17 all in aces and kings is a much better than average 17.
I would also bid 1NT for the same reasons as Justin, it's a great hand if partner wants to play in a suit but not worth upgrading for NT purposes.

p.s if you are playing redouble as support, I suggest swapping 1NT and redouble, play 1NT as 3-card support and redouble as strong. Sometimes they go for a penalty.

[whereagles]

Frances, the 4321 hcp scale only undervaluates aces and kings if there's a fit or long suits. Upgrading this the hand to 18-19 is therefore a slight masterminding because you have no clue if the fit/long suit is there.

[JLOGIC]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-August-29, 02:58, said:

p.s if you are playing redouble as support, I suggest swapping 1NT and redouble, play 1NT as 3-card support and redouble as strong. Sometimes they go for a penalty.

Simple, yet excellent. Had never heard of this idea before, thanks.

[FrancesHinden]

whereagles, on 2011-August-29, 08:10, said:

Frances, the 4321 hcp scale only undervaluates aces and kings if there's a fit or long suits. Upgrading this the hand to 18-19 is therefore a slight masterminding because you have no clue if the fit/long suit is there.

Did you read when I wrote "it's a great hand if partner wants to play in a suit but not worth upgrading for NT purposes." ?

[quiddity]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-August-29, 02:58, said:

p.s if you are playing redouble as support, I suggest swapping 1NT and redouble, play 1NT as 3-card support and redouble as strong. Sometimes they go for a penalty.

Is the 1NT support bid forcing? (Would opener redouble with a strong hand containing 3-card support)?

[aguahombre]

Can someone think of a reason why the swap between redouble and 1NT would not work as well in a strong NT style and allow 2NT to be a tool?

[gnasher]

aguahombre, on 2011-August-29, 11:09, said:

Can someone think of a reason why the swap between redouble and 1NT would not work as well in a strong NT style and allow 2NT to be a tool?

It works fine. 2NT is best played as a high-card raise, so that

1x pass 1y dbl
3y

can be semi-preemptive.

[Gerben42]

JLOGIC, on 2011-August-29, 10:56, said:

Simple, yet excellent. Had never heard of this idea before, thanks.

There is another option, you can also play Pass as showing support.
With a weak hand, just make your normal rebid. No need to give them a free run with a weak hand and you get to bid 1NT before them.

[gnasher]

How come when Frances mentions this idea everyone gets all excited, but when I described it nobody took a blind bit of notice?

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry536742

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry427089

http://groups.google...94bee19c15a3689

[paulg]

gnasher, on 2011-August-29, 15:13, said:

How come when Frances mentions this idea everyone gets all excited, but when I described it nobody took a blind bit of notice?

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry536742

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry427089

http://groups.google...94bee19c15a3689

I can't beat the 1998 quote, but we've been playing these methods since April 2005. We changed after seeing that Lauria and Versace swap 1NT and the support double.

[jallerton]

quiddity, on 2011-August-29, 11:03, said:

Is the 1NT support bid forcing? (Would opener redouble with a strong hand containing 3-card support)?

The support 1NT rebid is not forcing. Most commonly it is a weak NT hand (assuming you are not playing weak NT openings), but it can also be an unbalanced hand not strong enough for a reverse.

Yes, most strong hands with 3-card support will redouble, but 6430/5431 hands can choose to pattern out instead.

aguahombre, on 2011-August-29, 11:09, said:

Can someone think of a reason why the swap between redouble and 1NT would not work as well in a strong NT style and allow 2NT to be a tool?

Support NTs (and support doubles, similarly) actually fit in better with strong NT systems than with weak NT openers.
When playing weak NT, one challenge for Opener when holding 15+ balanced is to show his extra strength in a competitive auction, so there's a lot to be said for using the 1NT rebid to show the strong NT type of hand.

When playing strong NT, Opener has already shown at least the strength for a minimum opening bid, so there is no need to act again to show partner you weak NT strength. Now pass/1NT can be used to deny/show 3-card support.

[whereagles]

Gerben42, on 2011-August-29, 13:46, said:

There is another option, you can also play Pass as showing support.
With a weak hand, just make your normal rebid. No need to give them a free run with a weak hand and you get to bid 1NT before them.

This is underoptimal. Auctions such as

1m 1M
1NT pass

occasionally find opener with a 12-13 and responder with like a bad 6-7 and 1NT does 2 down vulnerable. If opener's RHO happens to bid, he helps you avoid this problem by giving opener the opportunity to pass his bid. Opener should therefore be able to capitalize and pass with a dead min balanced hand.

[whereagles]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-August-29, 10:57, said:

Did you read when I wrote "it's a great hand if partner wants to play in a suit but not worth upgrading for NT purposes." ?

Well, then I misunderstood something. I thought you wanted to upgrade. What's your point exactly?