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1eyedjack, on 2011-August-28, 11:29, said:
unless he only had 3 cards in the suit to start with?
That would make RHO 1354, which is unlikely given the bidding.
Signalling Question
#21
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Posted 2011-August-28, 11:32
That would make RHO 1354, which is unlikely given the bidding.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-August-28, 11:35
1eyedjack, on 2011-August-28, 11:29, said:
unless he only had 3 cards in the suit to start with?
already covered as not possible having opened 1D and not having 4-4 in the majors, a truly strange double with 5 diamonds, one spade, and a simple 2H response to the cue with a 3-bagger.
All that information is knowable to the opening leader
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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Posted 2011-August-28, 12:19
gnasher, on 2011-August-28, 11:26, said:
That wasn't quite what I meant. In isolation, playing ace then king asks for a spade. In isolation, playing the two instead of the jack asks for a club. Making two conflicting signals says that he doesn't want either suit.
So then, is it "a spade unless partner 100% knows I have > 3" or "a spade if 3, no entry if >3, up to partner to figure out which is most likely"?
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Posted 2011-August-28, 12:35
East can have a balanced hand with five diamonds and a hand too strong for a simple 1NT overcall. In fact, a balanced hand too strong for a notrump overcall is the hand type he probably (and actually) holds.
--Ben--
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Posted 2011-August-28, 12:51
wyman, on 2011-August-28, 12:19, said:
So then, is it "a spade unless partner 100% knows I have > 3" or "a spade if 3, no entry if >3, up to partner to figure out which is most likely"?
In general, I think he should signal what he wants to show, and hope we can work it out. The worst that can happen is that he tries to show no preference but it gets interpreted as a preference. If that's happening, any sequence of plays was going to be interpreted as a preference, so he's no worse off.
On this particular deal, he will assume that we know. It's inconceivable that we will confuse 2=3=4=4 with 4=4=3=2.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-August-28, 12:56
Makes sense. So in this case, what would you think is the difference between AK2 and AKJ? Is this a 'light preference for ♣, but no quick entry?'
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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Posted 2011-August-28, 13:09
inquiry, on 2011-August-28, 12:35, said:
East can have a balanced hand with five diamonds and a hand too strong for a simple 1NT overcall. In fact, a balanced hand too strong for a notrump overcall is the hand type he probably (and actually) holds.
I suppose it depends what you mean by "balanced". If East has five diamonds, North has only three. If North has only three diamonds, systemically he must be 4=4=3=2. That makes East 1=3=5=4.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-August-28, 13:11
wyman, on 2011-August-28, 12:56, said:
Makes sense. So in this case, what would you think is the difference between AK2 and AKJ? Is this a 'light preference for ♣, but no quick entry?'
A-K-J means spades
K-A-2 means clubs
A-K-2 and K-A-J both mean no preference, but I don't know what the difference is.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-August-28, 13:27
I am a fairly simple soul when it comes to defensive signals. And I find that it is an attitude that (for me) tends to pay off, although I accept that it could just be a reflection of my own limitations and, dare I suggest it, those of my partners. So on a personal level I tend to dismiss signals that experts say must mean this or that in a particular situation that arises in one in a billion hands on the grounds that it is the only logical meaning of the sequence of plays in the context of that one hand. I guess this means that, on occasion, I play signals that are redundant in context of hand, which is a price that I willingly pay for the guarantee of absence of misinterpretation.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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Posted 2011-August-29, 01:12
1eyedjack, on 2011-August-27, 14:07, said:
I realise that it has nothing to do with the question, but am I alone in finding it slightly odd that West would cue 2D with a 4 count, and his partner bid a passive NF 2H bid with a 19 count?
2♦ was obviously not a standart cue , but an artificial bid to show 4-4 majors and a weak hand ? I am just guessing.
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"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2011-August-29, 03:32
gnasher, on 2011-August-28, 13:11, said:
A-K-J means spades
K-A-2 means clubs
A-K-2 and K-A-J both mean no preference, but I don't know what the difference is.
K-A-2 means clubs
A-K-2 and K-A-J both mean no preference, but I don't know what the difference is.
On second thoughts, K-A-J probably just means that when he won the king he hadn't decided what to do, but now he wants a spade return.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-August-29, 10:40
gnasher, on 2011-August-29, 03:32, said:
On second thoughts, K-A-J probably just means that when he won the king he hadn't decided what to do, but now he wants a spade return.
Maybe for a normal player, but I think we should assume that world class players plan ahead before they do anything, and every card has a meaning if it possibly can.
In some cases he may not know what he'll want until he sees the cards played to trick 2, but that falls into my "if it possibly can" qualifier.