[FrancesHinden]

Zelandakh, on 2011-September-30, 03:37, said:

As for the concept, seems perfectly legal to me - many systems have more than 1 bid to describe a given hand type.

While the concept seems legal to me as well, in practice simply stating 'we bid at random' is frowned on by regulators, because there is always the suspicion that you don't - you have some (possibly even subconscious) way of deciding which bid to choose. If you have a declared algorithm for selection which action to pick I think you'd be OK.

There's an English pair whose method of choosing which minor to open with 3-3 or 4-4 is carefully documented on their card and is something like (i) choose the better one if there is huge disparity between them, otherwise (ii) count the number of odd pip cards in the minor suits and open 1C if this is even, 1D if this is odd. {pips = cards from 2 to 9 inclusive}

[lamford]

gordontd, on 2011-September-10, 05:17, said:

The Palmer Bayer is a simple-system event that doesn't allow short club openings. I hope you and Bob Brinig didn't break the rules when you won it, Paul!

We played 5-card majors with better minor, although we did meet one pair that played 5-card majors and a 4-card diamond suit and 3-card club suit. I got a blank look when I asked what they did with a 4-4-3-2 hand outside their no-trump range. Some simple-system events provide a convention card from which you cannot vary, and I see now that London does so for the Palmer Bayer; my error. However, some simple system events permit a short club under OB9D9. I presume that any defence is permitted to those under 11M2.

And, for the record, Brinig and I were invited to play in the event by the organiser.

[Vampyr]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-September-10, 04:18, said:

If you aren't happy with highly conventional defences to your methods, play natural opening bids.

This is easy to say, but the problem is that five card majors with a 2-card club suit is all the rage in London lately. So lots of people are playing this method who have no notion that any defenses are permitted. Not playing a short club myself, I have no way of knowing how many people have taken advantage of this regulation in designing their system; but I know a few who have, myself included. So a hapless prepared clubber is liable to find herself overcalled with a bid that has a seemingly random combination of possible meanings, and is very difficult to counter.

I think that the regulations are sensible, but there is little awareness among 2-card clubbers that they are playing a highly artificial method. It seems to me that many people consider this method fairly standard and natural.

[blackshoe]

It is interesting that people often consider what they play "standard". It is even more interesting that they consider things that are "standard" to be "natural".

Perhaps we need a vocabulary test for bridge players.

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2011-October-03, 18:07, said:

It is interesting that people often consider what they play "standard".

Well, a lot of people play what is popular in their area, by definition. So people in different clubs, geographical areas etc will all be playing what can be considered a "standard" system, though between the groups there may be hige variation.

Quote

It is even more interesting that they consider things that are "standard" to be "natural".

Or the other way round. Sometimes people playing standard discards will say "natural".

But in general, people who play natural systems, and my specific experience here is in an Acol culture, consider other natual systems to be more "standard" than systems with lower-level artificial opening bids -- typically, around here, strong club or Polish Club. So at least here, a standard system is a natural system. Thus shifting to 5-card majors does not seem like an earth-shattering change, and shifting to a 2-card club suit (usually to keep diamonds as 4, but sometimes also unbalanced) may feel like a reasonable consequence of this. But this shift makes a world of difference in how the system is classified and what defenses can be used against it.