multi vs weak 2s opening style
#1
Posted 2011-September-04, 14:48
#2
Posted 2011-September-04, 15:56
I now play 0-10 4 card suit weak 2s which you've never been allowed to do in the multi.
Not quite sure how this fits with the poll, or how useful it is to anybody else.
#3
Posted 2011-September-04, 16:08
With Ant590 I play junk multi in combination with sounds natural 2M openings so based on that I would have given different answers.
#4
Posted 2011-September-05, 02:29
#5
Posted 2011-September-05, 03:55
#6
Posted 2011-September-05, 04:26
helene_t, on 2011-September-05, 03:55, said:
The problem is that multi is an exception on BSC's, and the exception is defined as a classical weak two M or something strong (strong option is not obligated). In Belgium this means a 6 card suit exactly, although poor 7 card suits are also allowed.
#7
Posted 2011-September-05, 04:51
Edit: found it here: http://blakjak.org/wbf_cnbk.htm#multi
It just says "weak two in a major". So I suppose directors and appeal committees can just interpret that expression as they see fit.
This post has been edited by helene_t: 2011-September-05, 05:24
#8
Posted 2011-September-05, 05:14
George Carlin
#9
Posted 2011-September-05, 05:27
#10
Posted 2011-September-05, 06:03
manudude03, on 2011-September-05, 05:27, said:
I'm pretty sure you are allowed a multi which can be a 5- or 6-card suit. I haven't heard anything specifically about exactly five being disallowed, but if you also don't open on 5332s then you will always have a second suit; this makes it a BSC (ruled on at the 2000 Olympiad in Maastricht).
#11
Posted 2011-September-05, 06:27
gwnn, on 2011-September-05, 05:14, said:
Agreed, I am fairly sure it has never made a difference for me, and I'm not generally regarded as someone to underthink such matters. I am sure you can make a reasonable theoretical case for a small difference (tending to avoid opening a multi on marginal weak 2S hands but not marginal weak 2Hs), but really, it's never going to matter.
#12
Posted 2011-September-05, 07:50
A weak two gains because responder can premept immediately. This gain is greater if opener tends to have a six-card suit or a pure hand, because responder can premept more often and higher.
Hence I think that in order to maximise the benefits of your methods you should play a different style when playing a Multi than when playing weak twos. Obviously, though, it also depends on what you use 2M for when you play a Multi.
#13
Posted 2011-September-05, 08:44
1. It allows opps two tempos for entering the bidding.
2. It uses up the 2D opener, which is VERY useful as a weak 2.
In my opinion, multi isn't a tool you use because you want to. Rather, you use the multi if you need it so that the rest of the opening structure works ok.
Point 2 above is not to be taken lightly. Minor suit preempts are usually more troublesome than major suit ones because they preempt BOTH majors. In fact, one should give serious thought freeing up the 2C for a natural preempt and dump the strong 2C opener into some other opening (like e.g. 1C, making it two-way). Doing this is technically and theoretically correct, so you have that to back you up.
All this being said, if I were to play the multi, I think it would be easier for responder if the opening style were relatively disciplined. Otherwise it's just too much guesswork.
#14
Posted 2011-September-05, 09:59
manudude03, on 2011-September-05, 05:27, said:
Probably the full meaning got lost in translation for the Belgian authorities. I specifically asked about this 2 years ago before competition started, and the answer was clear that multi with only 5 card M is considered BSC in my country...

#15
Posted 2011-September-05, 11:36
#16
Posted 2011-September-05, 22:21
campboy, on 2011-September-05, 06:03, said:
See helene_t's first post above.
#17
Posted 2011-September-06, 00:31
gnasher, on 2011-September-05, 07:50, said:
Though Multi 2♦ could gain from the 2 reasons above, both occur quite rarely. Another big advantage of the Multi, is the ability to play the eventual 4M contract from responder's side which both conceals the unknown hand , and possibly protects honors on trick1. This advantage , which IMO should not be underestimated , is obviously more important when Multi is used in constructive sense, with buying the hand and playing 4M (or 3M) in mind.
#18
Posted 2011-September-06, 01:39
mich-b, on 2011-September-06, 00:31, said:
I've been playing multi without strong versions for a while and passing is a real problem for opponents. When you also include strong hands, then this advantage is compeletely gone and direct seat has 2 times to interfere. Opposite a NF multi, they have to intervene immediately because their partner may have no hand to overcall after 2♦-p-p.
Also in 3rd seat you can safely pass partner's P/C with the other suit if you're very weak and NV. This generates fun auctions. I even had a p-p-2♦-Dbl-3♥-p-p! come up when I had ♠s, LHO was not ammused.

Both of these occur now and then in my experience.
Rightsiding the 4M contract is much more frequent though, and indeed it's a very nice advantage.
#19
Posted 2011-September-06, 14:23
Free, on 2011-September-06, 01:39, said:
I doubt that... if you go through many deals in a simulator with dbl dummy solver, you'll see that rightsiding makes a difference like 1 out of 30 hands, and even then that difference is often marginal (e.g. makes 3NT +1 from the good side, 3NT = from the other).
#20
Posted 2011-September-07, 00:31
whereagles, on 2011-September-06, 14:23, said:
The specific case where one hand is a "weak 2" and the other hand is , hmm... Anything.... is much different than "rightsiding generally".
Mostly because the nature of the weak 2 hand is known , and the other hand can be anything (Balanced, side suit , side shortage, fit or no fit) which suggests a large advantage to concealing it, and making the defense harder - Should the defense play trumps to prevent ruffs? should they try to cash out? Of course all of this is not an issue for a dbl dummy solver.