[Antrax]

(Sorry for bombarding the forum, last night's session was very... interesting)
Matchpoints, NS vul, dealer E

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Our auction:

Spoiler

1♦-2♣ (forcing to game), 2♥-3♣, 3NT-4♣, 4♥-6♣. As is the motive with hands I'm posting today, another slam off two aces

ATB please.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

SAYC style

1D - 2C (1)
2NT (2) - 3NT (3)

(1) If you play strong jump shifts, the hand certainly qualifies
(2) 12-14
(3) due to a lack of a better bid, if 3C is forcing, the bid is
certainly better, due to the spade shortage, p will bid 3NT

Regarding your auction - your 2H bid is a reverse, showing 54., and
depending on agreement - add strength.
In a 2/1 seq. opener should try to start limiting his hand, and with
the given set, he has a nice bid to do this, a bid, that tells all
about shape and strength.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Antrax]

Reverses don't show additional strength for us after the auction 1♦-2♣, just shape.

[mb_dunedin]

To "attach the blame" as requested... as P_Marlowe suggested, squarely with east's 2H bid.

Unless agreed otherwise that shows 16+ HCP after which west can hardly be blamed for wanting to play in a slam. Even if it's agreed that the bid need not guarantee extra points in a 2/1 situation, it definitely promises extra shape. With a weak-no-trump hand (and particularly with the lovely stops in both majors), east has to rebid 2NT. If west has 4x hearts, the heart fit shouldn't get lost.

After 1D-2C-2NT, west has a tough choice. 3C is forcing and descriptive but I'm not sure how the bid helps the auction along - what does west plan to bid over any 3-of-a-suit bid from partner? 3NT is pragmatic, while 4C Gerber would be perfect for the day partner has Axx-Axxx-Axxx-xx....

[mb_dunedin]

Sorry Antrax, your reply beat me by a couple of minutes.... but I still don't like the 2H rebid when it implies interesting shape and 2NT tells the whole story.

[Fluffy]

Second round of biding by west is wrong

When you know what is the strain say so:

1♦-2♣
2x-4♣

now if you play 1430 blackwood you will stop in time.

[P_Marlowe]

Antrax, on 2011-September-26, 02:14, said:

Reverses don't show additional strength for us after the auction 1♦-2♣, just shape.

Ok - Fair enough, but even with this agreement the reverse showes 54, not 44.
Opener has a bal. hands, but says he has 2-suiter.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Antrax]

Thanks all, very good points.

[billw55]

Fluffy, on 2011-September-26, 03:06, said:

Second round of biding by west is wrong

When you know what is the strain say so:

1♦-2♣
2x-4♣

now if you play 1430 blackwood you will stop in time.

True but 5♣ is still a failure at matchpoints (it can even go down). A successful auction must end in NT.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Fluffy, on 2011-September-26, 03:06, said:

Second round of biding by west is wrong

When you know what is the strain say so:

1♦-2♣
2x-4♣

now if you play 1430 blackwood you will stop in time.

There is nothing wrong with the 2♥ rebid by Opener.
Responder does not deny a 4 card Major with his 2/1 GF 2C bid .
The 2-level is used to explore for a Major suit fit.

However, Minorwood or kickback-RKC should be used on this hand:

1♦-2♣
2♥-4♣! unnecessary jump = Minorwood
4♥(1 key) - 4NT ( = to play since 5♦= kickback for K's )

Of course the obvious flaw here is not knowing about Sp-stop(s).

[the_dude]

I believe the 2♥ bid is a matter of partnership agreement. Assuming this hand meets your agreement (2♥only shows a 4card suit, not extra shape or values), then the auction is fine up through 4♣.

4♣, imho, is a slam try, and East does not have a slam acceptance. He should bid 4NT which is to play over 4minor slam tries. When he bids 4♥, he is implicitly accepting the slam try over which West cannot be blamed for proceeding.

(West should bid RKC, though ... )

[TWO4BRIDGE]

the_dude, on 2011-September-26, 08:10, said:

I believe the 2♥ bid is a matter of partnership agreement. Assuming this hand meets your agreement (2♥only shows a 4card suit, not extra shape or values), then the auction is fine up through 4♣.

Hardy style, 2 ♥ does show 4 cards AND denies 5 cards ♦ at the same time, since the 1st obligation for Opener is to rebid 2♦ w/5+.... and this still leaves the 2-level to find a 4 card Major fit.

[masse24]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-September-26, 08:35, said:

Hardy style, 2 ♥ does show 4 cards AND denies 5 cards ♦ at the same time, since the 1st obligation for Opener is to rebid 2♦ w/5+.... and this still leaves the 2-level to find a 4 card Major fit.

Lawrence style as well.

2♥ here denies 5 ♦'s, however it also denies the ability to bid 2NT. Here, with all suits stopped, I would prefer a 2NT rebid (which does not deny a 4 card major). West, if he has 4 ♥'s can bid it then.

But, as other posts have stated, a matter of partnership agreement.

[whereagles]

Seems easy:

1D 2C
2NT 3C
3NT pass

wtp?

[Antrax]

We play Lawrence style, and my reason for not bidding 2NT was to let partner play NT from his side if he has tenaces to protect. Of course, I didn't take into consideration the added benefit in 2NT, that of limiting my hand and describing my shape more accurately (2NT guarantees at least two clubs, for instance, information that partner might have welcomed earlier).

[VM1973]

whereagles, on 2011-September-26, 10:00, said:

Seems easy:

1D 2C
2NT 3C
3NT pass

wtp?

The problem is partner could hold:
♠Axxx
♥Kxxx
♦Axx
♣xx

and 6♣ is cold and 6NT has good play as well.

I place the blame with West. Regardless what method you use (visualization, Zar Points, LTC, whatever) surely West can foresee that slam is likely with his holding opposite an opening bid.

35 ZPs + opener's 26 = 61 so 11.8 tricks.
4½ losers opposite partner's (assumed) 7 loser hand = 12.5 tricks so you are definitely in the slam zone.
Solid trump suit.

Whether you play Minorwood, Kickback, or 1430 West should easily be able to find out that two aces are off and sign off in NT.

Personally I wouldn't have bid hearts with this hand as East, as that shows a shapelier hand, but that is irrelevant to reaching the final contract.

[neilkaz]

Antrax, on 2011-September-26, 10:11, said:

We play Lawrence style, and my reason for not bidding 2NT was to let partner play NT from his side if he has tenaces to protect. Of course, I didn't take into consideration the added benefit in 2NT, that of limiting my hand and describing my shape more accurately (2NT guarantees at least two clubs, for instance, information that partner might have welcomed earlier).

Regardless of style and noting that NT is king in MP, I love a 2NT rebid from east here as the majors are nicely stopped and you may even luck out with a ♥ lead. 2NT describes a flat 12-14 and that is what you have. To me, this is superior to trying to sort out a 4-4♥ fit right now and note that it also gives less info to the opps. So just quickly try to declare NT and hope for OT's and a near top with the east hand.

I think you'd do well to have some method in the minor suits to key card below 4NT. This is especially important at MP as you can stop in 4NT which outscores 5m. I like to play that pulling 3NT to your previously shown great minor suit is Minorwood.

As for PD's bid after your 4♥ cue, perhaps he could cue his stiff ♠ but you might think it the ace and bid slam anyhow or if you play 1430 then he can try RKCB since with 1 ace you stop in 5♣ of course likely losing to those in NT but not off two aces. Of course you could have no aces, but then it seems unlikely you'd cooperate with a slam try after opening.

Shared blame here 1/3 to each and 1/3 to system.

.. neilkaz ..