[Statto]

I partially play 2/1 in a Strong ♣ context. But this is likely to be relevant to all 2/1 players and then some...

There is probably little point in (e.g.) 1♠-3♦ being a strong jump shift, as 2♦ is already GF, so what do you use 3♦ for? If you use it as a mini-splinter (rather than weak jump shift) then I'd like to hear from you (and even if you don't I still would)

1) Continuations (assuming example case of 1♠-3♦)

I think this scheme works, but there are some gaps – can you fill them in or provide a better suggestion?
3♠ – minimum, attempt to sign off there
4♠ – enough for game but no 1st round control
3♥/4♣/4♦ – 1st round control, interest in at least game
4♥ – ?
3NT – ?

2) Use of double jump

E.g. what does 1♠-4♦ now mean?

3) 1♥-2♠

Noting that 1♠ would obviously not be GF, should 2♠ still be a mini-splinter, or is it better to play it as a strong jump shift with 3♠ being a normal splinter?

---
Constructive or destructive criticism and general comments sought. Thanks in advance for your input

[MrAce]

I play 1M-3♦ = 6♦ invitation hands since more than a decade.

Same goes for 1♥--2♠

[32519]

I use Mini-Splinters in Precision (not 2/1) as follows -

OPENER.......RESPONDER
♠K4..........♠A10963
♥AKJ92.......♥10763
♦AQ..........♦K96
♣9432........♣8

The bidding:
1♣[1].......1♦[2]
1♥[3].......3♣[4]
4♣[5].......4♥[6]
4♠[7].......4NT[8]
5♣[9].......5♦[10]
?[11]

1. 16+
2. Negative 0-7 HCP
3. My suit
4. Mini-Splinter bid 5-7 HCP, 4-card ♥ support
5. Tell me more: Do you have a singleton or a void?
6. Singleton ♣ (Returning to game in the agreed trump suit confirms the splinter as a singleton. With a void the response changes – see example auction 2 below)
7. Tell me about any 1st or 2nd round control you have in side suits (1st step above game level asks for side suit controls)
8. I have 1st or 2nd round ♠ control (with no other 1st or 2nd round controls, Responder signs off in the agreed trump suit)
9. Do you have any more good news? (Bidding the splinter suit asks for more info. Without any other 1st or 2nd round controls, Responder returns to 5 of the agreed trump suit)
10. 1st or 2nd round ♦ control
11. From the bidding Opener knows that the ♥Q is missing. However holding 9 trumps Opener can play to drop the Queen. You can play safe and signoff in 5♥ or bid the slam hoping to drop the Queen.

Example Auction 2 (Same hand as example 1 except that this time Responder has a ♣ void)

OPENER.......RESPONDER
♠K4..........♠A10963
♥AKJ92.......♥10763
♦AQ..........♦K986
♣9432........♣

The bidding:
1♣[1]........1♦[2]
1♥[3]........3♣[4]
4♣[5]........4♦[6]
4♠[7]........4NT[8]
?[9]

1. 16+
2. Negative 0-7 HCP
3. My suit
4. Mini-Splinter bid 5-7 HCP, 4-card ♥ support
5. Tell me more: Do you have a singleton or a void?
6. ♣ Void. I have 1st or 2nd round ♦ control (With a void in the splinter suit, Responder can start showing Aces and Kings at a lower level)
7. Tell me about any other 1st or 2nd round control you may have in side suits (1st step above game level asks for other side suit controls)
8. I have 1st or 2nd round ♠ control
9. From the bidding Opener knows that the ♥Q is missing. However holding 9 trumps Opener can play to drop the Queen. You can play safe and signoff in 6♥ or bid the grand slam hoping to drop the Queen.

These are but two examples. There are other suggested bidding sequences where Responder also has 5-7 HCP and 4-card support for Openers suit which only contains Queens and Jacks. Also a bidding sequence where Responders hand contains an Ace or King in the trump suit. You need a sequence to convey the message across to the Opener.

Playing Mini-Splinters in Precision, other agreements are needed on how to cope with the "Impossible Negative."

[whereagles]

If you play mini-splinters (jump shift) together with maxi-splinters(dbl jump shift), then I advise you to mini-splinter from 3-card support. Otherwise the bid will get rusty

My preference is to use the jump shift as an unlimited 4-card splinter, from invitational values up to infinity (next step asks hcp). The dbl jump shift is then open for something else (I use it as anti-splinter, i.e. 12-14 and xxx/Axx in the suit bid).

[Zelandakh]

You might also be interested in the following scheme. I have posted it before so regular viewers might want to skip ahead...

1♠ - 2NT = mini-splinter in any suit or "in-between" splinter in any suit
========
3♣ = relay
... - 3♦ = mini-splinter in diamonds
... - 3♥ = mini-splinter in hearts
... - 3♠ = mini-splinter in clubs
... - 3NT = in-between void splinter (4♣ asks where)
... - 4♣ = in-between splinter, singleton club
... - 4♦ = in-between splinter, singleton diamond
... - 4♥ = in-between splinter, singleton heart

The same structure applies after 1♥ - 2♠. 1♠ - 3♣ and 1♥ - 2NT now become the GF raise (equivalent of Jacoby) and this frees up 1♠ - 3♦ and 1♥ - 3♣ to use as a limit raise.

For your specific question (1♠ - 3♦) I think 3♥ should be available as a general game try. Depending on your criteria for using the mini-splinter it could also reasonably be used to ask about trump length. 3♠ and 4♠ obviously need to be a sign-off. That leaves 3NT, 4m and 4♥ as slam tries. It seems sensible to me to simply play these as normal cue bids and Serious/Frivolous according to your normal style. For me this would mean Friv 3NT and serious denial cues but most likely your style will be the reverse.

Finally, a double jump should retain its normal meaning as a splinter. These are different hand types.

Oh yes, and 32519's examples:

1♥ = 10-17, 5+ hearts
... - 2♠ = as above with 4+ hearts
2NT = relay
... - 3♣ = 0-1 clubs, INV
3♠ = slam try (frivolous)
... - 4♣ = accept, spade control and club loser
4♦ = diamond control? (showing the small advantage of the denial cue method by using it as an asking bid)
... - 4♠ = yes, with 1 key card
4NT = ♥Q or a 5th trump?
... - 5♥ = no
and we reach the same position. Partner has ♠A and ♦K but only 4 trumps without the queen. I think it is right to bid the slam now.

1♥ = 10-17, 5+ hearts
... - 2♠ = as above with 4+ hearts
2NT = relay
... - 3♣ = 0-1 clubs, INV
3♠ = slam try (frivolous)
... - 4♥ = accept, spade and diamond controls, no club loser (must be a void here), no heart control
4♠ = RKCB
... - 4NT = 1
5♣ = ♥Q or a 5th trump?
... - 5♥ = no

In this case I do not think it is good to bid the grand and settling for a small slam the better choice.

Your asking bid follow-ups are fine in a Precision context but I doubt they are worth the effort for the OP. As can be seen, more orthodox continuations can also exchange the relevant information and match much better with a natural system. Using DCBs gets you some of the benefits of asking bids while fitting within a normal cue structure. Note also that if Responder were to have QJxx/xxxx/KJxx/x you would be playing 5♥ with a reasonable chance of going down. Using Serious/Frivolous 3S or 3NT helps to avoid this sort of thing.

[ArtK78]

I have a major suit raise structure that incorporates Bergen raises, Jacoby raises, mini, midi and maxi splinters.

Over a 1♥ opening:

2♠ - One of several types of raises. Opener bids 2NT to find out. Then:
.....3♣ - mini-splinter, short clubs
.....3♦ - mini-splinter, short diamonds
.....3♥ - mini-splinter, short spades
.....3♠ - maxi-splinter, short spades
.....3NT - balanced 3-card raise, 15-17 HCP
.....4♣ - maxi-splinter, short clubs
.....4♦ - maxi-splinter, short diamonds
.....4♥ - balanced, 4 or 5 hearts, 15-17 HCP

2NT - Jacoby raise. Use whatever followup structure you like.
3♣ - Bergen mixed raise.
3♦ - Bergen limit raise.
3♥ - Preemptive raise.
3♠, 4♣, 4♦ - Midi-splinters (game forcing, no extras).
3NT - Good preemptive raise to 4♥.
4♥ - Normal preemptive raise.

After a 1♠ opening, the structure is similar, except that you have to use 3♣ as the "Jacoby 2NT" raise.

2NT - One of several types of raises. Opener bids 3♣ to find out. Then:
.....3♦ - mini-splinter, short diamonds.
.....3♥ - mini-splinter, short hearts.
.....3♠ - mini-splinter, short clubs.
.....3NT - balanced 3-card raise, 15-17 HCP.
.....4♣, 4♦ and 4♥ - maxi-splinters.
.....4♠ - 4 or 5 spades, 15-17 HCP.

3♣ - "Jacoby 2NT raise." We show:
.....3♦ - Minor suit singleton. Responder relays with 3♥ to find out which, and opener bids the corresponding suit - 3♠ for clubs, 3NT for diamonds.
.....3♥ - heart singleton.
.....Higher bids - your favorite methods.

3♦ - Bergen mixed raise.
3♥ - Bergen limit raise.
3♠ - Preemptive raise.
3NT - Good preemptive raise to 4♠.
4♣, 4♦ and 4♥ - Midi-splinters (as over 1♥)
4♠ - Normal preemptive raise.

[Phil]

I had mini-splinters on the card for two years with one partner.

They never came up once.

[ArtK78]

 Phil, on 2012-February-08, 09:21, said:

I had mini-splinters on the card for two years with one partner.

They never came up once.

They do not come up frequently, but they do come up on occasion.

It is nice to have a way to show them when they come up.

Quite frankly, opportunities to use ANY part of my major suit raise structure come up on average about once or twice per session. So any particular portion of it - mini-splinters, midi-splinters, maxi-splinters, Jacoby raises, Bergen raises, strong balanced raises - come up significantly less often. Part of that is that one rarely has an unimpeded auction when one has a major suit raise, even a strong major suit raise. When it comes to mini-splinters, it stands to reason that the opps have a fair share of the high-card strength in the hand and probably a long suit or two.

[Statto]

Thanks all, lots of great ideas

[Zelandakh]

Your method is very similar to mine Art - you seem to support immediately with 3 and a balanced hand and lump these into the multi-splinter raise at the cost of not differentiating between voids and singletons. One thing I would suggest is that you reverse the LR and mixed raise to allow a game try over the LR. This in turn allows you to slightly widen the LR range which makes the 2 bids more equal and therefore easier to handle overall.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 Zelandakh, on 2012-February-09, 01:31, said:

. One thing I would suggest is that you reverse the LR and mixed raise to allow a game try over the LR. This in turn allows you to slightly widen the LR range which makes the 2 bids more equal and therefore easier to handle overall.

Are you referring to Reversing Art's Bergen Raises ?

If so, then 1♥ - 3♦! ( = mixed raise ) has absolutely no gametry.

Do Bergen limit raises really need a gametry ? [ I guess they do these days since opening 1-bids have become weaker and weaker as evidenced in these forums ) .

[Zelandakh]

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-February-09, 07:22, said:

Are you referring to Reversing Art's Bergen Raises ?

If so, then 1♥ - 3♦! ( = mixed raise ) has absolutely no gametry.

Do Bergen limit raises really need a gametry ? [ I guess they do these days since opening 1-bids have become weaker and weaker as evidenced in these forums ) .

Yeah, Art has 1♥ - 3♣ = mixed raise and 1♥ - 3♦ as limit raise. I would suggest the reverse and giving the LR a slightly wider range (say 3 points rather than 2) allowing a game try to sort this out. This makes the 2 ranges more equal (eg 7-9, 10-12 rather than 7-10, 11-12) as well as giving the mixed raise a (slightly) more preemptive effect.

[ArtK78]

 Zelandakh, on 2012-February-09, 07:37, said:

Yeah, Art has 1♥ - 3♣ = mixed raise and 1♥ - 3♦ as limit raise. I would suggest the reverse and giving the LR a slightly wider range (say 3 points rather than 2) allowing a game try to sort this out. This makes the 2 ranges more equal (eg 7-9, 10-12 rather than 7-10, 11-12) as well as giving the mixed raise a (slightly) more preemptive effect.

The Bergen limit raise has a very narrow range, so no game try is needed.

On the other hand, the mixed raise has a wide range (especially over one of our weak openings, in which case it is approximately 6-12 HCP), so the mixed raise needs a game try.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Re: Gametry with lower Bergen ( mixed raise, 7-10 hcp or perhaps Art's range ),
I've proposed a Losing Trick Count gametry method where most normal openings are 7 LTC ; and a 6 LTC ( or lower ) shows "extras"

1H

- 3C!

3D! ( general gametry with a 6 LTC ; says nothing about Diam )

- ??
4H ( accept with 8 LTC or lower >> 24 - 8 - 6 = 10 tricks )
3H ( decline with 9 LTC or higher )

[aguahombre]

Just a reminder about a minority point of view: Having 13 or 14 different ways of showing various degrees of major suit support is nice. Every once in a while we are dealt hands with varying degrees of non-game strength but no major support and a long suit of our own.

Some of us like to be able to show those hands when they come up, also --e.g., to distinguish between 6-9 with a long minor and 10-12 with a long minor. The forcing NT cannot serve to handle both.

[Zelandakh]

 aguahombre, on 2012-February-09, 22:31, said:

Just a reminder about a minority point of view: Having 13 or 14 different ways of showing various degrees of major suit support is nice. Every once in a while we are dealt hands with varying degrees of non-game strength but no major support and a long suit of our own.

Some of us like to be able to show those hands when they come up, also --e.g., to distinguish between 6-9 with a long minor and 10-12 with a long minor. The forcing NT cannot serve to handle both.

You will probably know by now that I use a relay method to solve this. 1♠ - 2m is natural and non-forcing and repeating the clubs next round shows the 6-9 hand with long suit. With an invitational hand and a long minor you can start with a 1NT relay and then bid the minor naturally should partner show a minimum; if partner shwos a maximum then it is easier just to stay in relays since the auction is now GF.

You are right that Bergen and related methodsw have some knock-on effects to handling these 1-suited minor hands in a 2/1 context. There have been several threads about this and noone has really come up with a perfect solution that I have seen. Since I have never played my raise structure in combination with 2/1 I would not like to say whether it is a good idea or not. It works fine in both a relay structure and with traditional (non-GF) 2/1 responses.