[Quartic]

Finally, we managed to play in a 4-2 fit after some interference:

---

3♠ was duly down 3. We play 4 card majors (Acol), so 1♠ was systemic. Should North bid 4♣, or should South pull 3♠? Can we defend for +200?

[wyman]

I don't want to comment too strongly, since I don't play ACOL, but if south has only promised 4 spades, I find it hard to believe that 3S can be right by north. When my partner makes a takeout double, and I have a 5-card suit, I tend not to bid a 2 card suit...

[the hog]

3S by Nth is ridiculous as you could be, (are), facing a 4 carder. Nth should bid 4C.

[Zelandakh]

For me South's double is made on the understanding that partner will bid assuming they are 5133 plus 1 card. That makes both 3♠ and 4♣ reasonable but give North 1354 - where is South going on a 4♦ response? I suspect it is worth Ave+ or better to defend in 100s here - this is often the case when we have a big balanced hand with 3 cards in their suit.

[Fluffy]

I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣.

South should pass 3♥, and north should take out to a suit he can play.

[Zelandakh]

Fluffy, on 2012-March-27, 08:25, said:

I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣.

You open 1♣ in, for example, Swiss Acol but 1♠ in Modern English Acol.

[aguahombre]

IMO, South can foresee a problem and avoid it. His hand is very nice, but if he just counts the number of hearts he holds and partner's failure to call, just staying fixed is probably a good idea.

I don't know the advantages of opening 1S vs 1C in ACOL with 4-3-2-4; but it seems to have disadvantages when the strength is this much.

If North is, in fact, supposed to bid 4C with the given hand ---is opener supposed to sit with 4-3-4-2, 5-3-4-1? Wouldn't these complications demand the use of 3N after the double as a scramble?

[HighLow21]

I don't like the takeout double nearly as much as I like 4♣ by South. But face it: West's preemptive 3♥ was both ridiculous and extremely effective.

[Quartic]

aguahombre, on 2012-March-27, 09:40, said:

IMO, South can foresee a problem and avoid it. His hand is very nice, but if he just counts the number of hearts he holds and partner's failure to call, just staying fixed is probably a good idea.

I don't know the advantages of opening 1S vs 1C in ACOL with 4-3-2-4; but it seems to have disadvantages when the strength is this much.

If North is, in fact, supposed to bid 4C with the given hand ---is opener supposed to sit with 4-3-4-2, 5-3-4-1? Wouldn't these complications demand the use of 3N after the double as a scramble?

I used to open 1♣ with hands like this, but a lot of the good players at my club play it the other way, and I'm following their advice (I wasn't South here, but I would have opened it 1♠). I think the main advantage is it gets our major into the picture quickly when we have a fit. Unfortunately, as here, it can lead to difficulties when we don't have a fit in the major. I'm not yet completely convinced that 1♠ is better than 1♣, but I don't think it's clear-cut.

I'm still not sure what my best bid as North is after partner doubles.

[rmnka447]

North can't sit for the Dbl with the poor hand held. Since 1 ♠ could be bid on 4 ♠s, I think there is no other choice then to bid 4 ♣. If playing ♠s is right then South should have bid ♠s in stead of Dbling.

[squealydan]

Re-opening doubles are meant to show shape, not points. The more opposition trumps and the more points opener holds, the less likely it is that partner has made a trap pass. South should expect partner to respond 4♦ which doesn't look like the ideal place to be.

South should pass.

As north, bid 4♣.

[the hog]

Fluffy, on 2012-March-27, 08:25, said:

I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣.

South should pass 3♥, and north should take out to a suit he can play.

Certainly most Australian Acolites would open this 1C.

[wank]

having played acol on a serious basis, i think you should play 5cM style when 18-19, otherwise open the major.

1m is therefore 18-19 bal or 4+.

4cM works much better with a strong NT though - that way your 1M openings become pre-empts.

[ArtK78]

Clearly there is something systemically wrong here.

1) I would NEVER pass out 3♥ with the South hand.
2) If this hand is to be opened 1♠ by system, then North cannot bid 3♠.
3) If North has a right to expect 5 spades in the South hand on this auction, then South cannot open 1♠.

Because of the systemic matters involved in determining the proper opening bid, I cannot assign the blame. Either the 1♠ opening is wrong, or the 3♠ call is wrong.

By the way, another question that was asked was can you defend for +200. Since East-West have 8 tricks on any defense, the question becomes can North pass the double of 3♥? I don't see how he can, since South would make the same double if he held:

AKQxx
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Kxxx
Axxx