[mikeh]

Off-topic, but this hand got me to thinking about a drawback to my current methods, in which the double of 1♥ shows 4+ spades, which allows for 1♠ to be the unbiddable hand.....say you hold Kxx xxx KQxxx Jx....what do you bid over 1♥?

I really like this method, but it occurred to me, on reading this thread, that reopening 4♠ on 4 is impossible.....since we could easily have 5 and even 6....although we use 2♥ as 6+ invitational, so that holding is out.

[kenrexford]

mikeh, on 2012-March-28, 09:29, said:

Off-topic, but this hand got me to thinking about a drawback to my current methods, in which the double of 1♥ shows 4+ spades, which allows for 1♠ to be the unbiddable hand.....say you hold Kxx xxx KQxxx Jx....what do you bid over 1♥?

I really like this method, but it occurred to me, on reading this thread, that reopening 4♠ on 4 is impossible.....since we could easily have 5 and even 6....although we use 2♥ as 6+ invitational, so that holding is out.

You need to quit playing that esoteric nonsense. I keep telling you tha!

[ArtK78]

kenrexford, on 2012-March-28, 11:13, said:

mikeh, on 2012-March-28, 09:29, said:

Off-topic, but this hand got me to thinking about a drawback to my current methods, in which the double of 1♥ shows 4+ spades, which allows for 1♠ to be the unbiddable hand.....say you hold Kxx xxx KQxxx Jx....what do you bid over 1♥?

I really like this method, but it occurred to me, on reading this thread, that reopening 4♠ on 4 is impossible.....since we could easily have 5 and even 6....although we use 2♥ as 6+ invitational, so that holding is out.

You need to quit playing that esoteric nonsense. I keep telling you tha!

That is funny, even without the final "t"!

[benlessard]

IMO any hand with 4S will balance with 4S, its a expert standard Imo that denying a 5 cd suit and bidding it is takeout.

1Nt--(P)--P--(2D)
P---(p)--??

2H is takeout, X is dsip or penalty.


So for me cannot have 4S hes either 3064 or slammish with clubs. For frequency i prefer slammish with clubs but my default agreement lead me to take it as 3064.

Of course this is off if the X show 4 or more S (my fav method)

[lalldonn]

benlessard, on 2012-March-28, 12:56, said:

1Nt--(P)--P--(2D)
P---(p)--??

2H is takeout, X is dsip or penalty.

I would take X as takeout, 2H as hearts and another place to play (generally either 4-4 majors or 4 hearts - 5 clubs).

[han]

mikeh, on 2012-March-28, 09:29, said:

[skip]double of 1♥ shows 4+ spades[skip]

Without wanting to sound like I play bridge at your level, I think this method is seriously flawed and you would do well to change it. It's too wide ranging in terms of spade length and strength, and that will hurt you in many other competitive auctions as well.

There have been plenty of alternatives posted here on the forums in which double shows 4-5 spades, or perhaps 4-5 spade but not strong with 5. Most of those methods use 2H for hands with 6+ spades (and perhaps strong with 5) and some also use 2S as 6+ spades to further distinguish between long spade hands in terms of strength.

Personally I think that using double, 2H and 2S all for showing various spade hands is best, but I couldn't convince my partner so we play that 2H shows any hand with 6+ spades and 2S is the raise of opener's minor, leaving double with any 4-5 spades. In my view that's still a major improvement over double showing 4+ spades.

Now, in the current auction responder playing our methods could double and then bid 4S with 5 spades but not with 4, so that's still a loss compared to standard methods. Hence I think that playing our methods 4NT would indeed show a 4-0-6-3 shape or the like.

An advantage of our methods is that a balance with 4S would show exactly 5 spades, in what must necessarily be a distributional hand. So opener may convert to 4NT or 5C without spade support.