[Antrax]

IMPs, none vul.

---

+480. Go nuts.

[32519]

What are you fussing about? If the ♥K is offside, the slam can never make.

[mgoetze]

Playing Robson-Segal methods, South has a nice 4♣ available to get things going in the right direction. But anyway, it's only a 50% slam.

[Antrax]

Do you think the club suit is good enough for a FNJ?

[paulg]

Unless South had two 4-card club suits when he passed originally, I think 4♣ is fit whatever your methods but I don't think this suit is good enough. With no red-suit controls I think 4♠ is fine here.

[mgoetze]

I dunno, I think if you wait for an even better club suit than this you will be aiming for a very narrow target between "not good enough for FNJ" and "too good to pass initially". So for now I would bid 4♣ but I would be willing to let someone convince me otherwise.

[gwnn]

Maybe read R/S? They talk about suit quality and argue convincingly that it matters. One honour does not a fit jump make.

[Flameous]

True, but I wouldn't be too strict for passed hand bidding, the point is to let partner in on your shape and possible source of tricks while in competition the point is more about showing where your values are so you can judge whether to defend or bid more.

That said, I don't find this hand good enough for 4♣, those QJ of D seem so totally useless.

And indeed, there's zero blame to go around for this hand. Totally normal result.

[EricK]

The slam is surely a little over 50% (the ♥K is likely to lie with the ♦ shortage). I think North can make a try. He has a 4 loser hand, strong trumps, a strong second suit, controls in all 4 suits, and partner has shown invitational+ strength.

[han]

32519 said it well, don't worry about missing a slam on a finesse. The auction is reasonable.

[Phil]

Yes, the auction is fine. Perhaps with ♠K + ♣A and another K, South could bid 4♦.

Lalldonn, what do you think about FNJ here?

[lalldonn]

Why me? I wouldn't bid it even if I could here.

[JLOGIC]

edit: Sorry Im an idiot, didnt see south was a passed hand, was wondering why everyone thought norths pass of 4S was reasonable.

[rmnka447]

There was a similar hand to this one which came up in a KO event I was playing in.

4 ♠ is ambiguous, so your partner can't really know whether you have a good hand or not.

In the hand I was involved in, I had a chunky 14 and decided to try a 4 ♦ cue to show values. Partner took it as a control and bid slam with a good 17 pointer. The preempter proceeded to cash 2 ♦ tricks for a big IMP swing.


Subsequent discussion led us to the following agreement after a preempt:

A cue of the opponent's suit shows a control,

With a good raise, we will make a negative double, and,

With a competitive raise, we will simply raise to game.


With that type of agreement, responder doubles and opener has a chance to explore for slam after a subsequent 4 ♠ bid. Most pairs have probably never discussed this type of bidding problem and would probably act as responder did here. So, yes, you could say that preeempts do work.

[Zelandakh]

rmnka447, on 2012-April-22, 20:43, said:

With a good raise, we will make a negative double, and,

That seems fine until the first time you see it come back to you in 5♦...

[rmnka447]

Zelandakh, on 2012-April-23, 04:57, said:

That seems fine until the first time you see it come back to you in 5♦...

Whether to bid 5 ♥ or not seems less of a problem than determining if game or slam is right. At the very least, partner is aware that responder has some values.