[gszes]

I grew up on sequences like 1n 2c 2s 4n meaning we did not find a spade fit and
I am now inviting to 6n. I took this for granted but over time this seems silly to me.

If I have sufficient values to try for 6n then by all means try 4n quant. If the parnership
has enough for slam (or is close) they can still investigate at the 5 and 6 level for even a
minor suit slam. Maybe settling for an easier to make suit contract:)))

the overall process of bidding would work like this

after 1n-4n for ex:

if opener is min and balanced (no 5 card suit) they pass


if opener is max they can just bid 6n OR (in case they have a doubleton increasing the possibility of a ruffing value)
they can bid 5n to show a hand with 2 4 card suits (partners bid up the line to find a fit and play there) OR opener
shows a 5 card suit at 6 level (if opener started with 5422 they are probably better off treating the hand as having 2
4 card suits.


if opener is somewhere in between introduce 5 card suits at the 5 level as this may be enough
(if p has a fit) to increase your probability of making 6. The partnership then uses 5n as a sign off
especially at MP at IMPS the thought of stopping in 5 of a minor is not so horrid.


By adopting this method responder can freely use stayman to search for a 4 card major (and to a lesser extent a minor suit fit)
and failing to find one they can sign off at 3n and if a fit is found (probably making their hand better) they can then use 4n
as key card.

these same concepts can apply to 1n 5n type bidding as well.



Let me know (like i could stop you) what you think is it time for a change????????????????

[perko90]

4NT is still best as quantitative in the above auction.
The Stayman bidder may well have been heading for slam if a 4-4 fit was found, but with the non-fit only has an invite.

Also, it's not like you don't have RKC available after a Stayman sequence. Partnership agreements vary on the meaning of new suits after a Stayman sequence. If they promise a fit, you can do that first and then bid 4NT on your next turn. If they don't imply a fit, then you should probably have another method (such as a jump to 4C) for RKC.

There's actually a bunch of suggestions on the same topic in the N/B section, but with some advanced suggestions on GF options after Stayman that promise a fit.

[aguahombre]

Actually, we won't be changing standard on these fora. And, I doubt anyone who uses the age-old quantitative and Stayman methods will care whether their methods are still in the norm or not. 2C, then 4NT if no major suit fit comes to light, isn't taking up space which is needed for anything else.

[CSGibson]

I don't like it, because i don't see the benefit from using 4N as keycard when you have so many other options. for us, we would use as our slam sequences:

3 of the other major: unspecified shortness, slam try
4♣ - 1430
4♦ - quantitative slam try with a fit for opener's major
4 of the other major: quantitative slam try without a fit for opener's major; opener should go to slam on any non-minimum (Baron responses for acceptance, showing 4 & 5 card suits with some minimum quality standards up the line)
4N - quantitative slam try without a fit for opener's major; opener should go to slam on any maximum (Baron responses for acceptance, showing 4 & 5 card suits with some minimal quality standards up the line).

Those are our standard slam things, we have even more esoteric sequences possible, but you get the picture; the 4N response as keycard just isn't needed, you have the space to do something else.

[Vampyr]

perko90, on 2012-July-05, 17:58, said:

Partnership agreements vary on the meaning of new suits after a Stayman sequence. If they promise a fit, you can do that first and then bid 4NT on your next turn.

The simplest is to play that 3 of the other major is a hand too good to raise to four of the major opener bid.

[Mbodell]

Silly idea. You may have a slam force with a fit and only quant with no fit, so you can't just quant invite and then find your fit. If you have a fit, but want to make a quant invite, and want to play 4M when the invite is declined you have to stayman and then slow the slam invite at or below 4M so that 4M can be the sign off place. Baze handles that nicely. You shouldn't show random aspects of your hand in all slamming auctions unless partner asks with stayman or with something like baron (4♠ over 1nt quantitative asking for suits up the line if accepting).

[Zelandakh]

Whatever else you use 4NT as here it is surely bad to play it as RKCB. When we have a slam hand with spade fit we can make our forcing spade raise (3♥ for most) and get a cue auction on the way to 4NT. Even if we feel it is important to be able to bid RKCB immediately, we can still use some form of BAZE and now either 4♣ or 4♦ is RKCB. Either way we are better off. I can see no benefit whatsoever to the proposed change and am really surprised to see it in this forum.

[Vampyr]

Interesting that this topic has appeared on the Beginning and Expert forums within the space of about a week.

[dake50]

Look at 'Yellow Rose of Texas'.
Take those shapes out of 4NT quant.
Now what system have you got for 5-3 minor
suit slam try?