[mr1303]

---

For reasons best known only to yourself, you decide to bid 3H rather than double.

What do you say here?

[billw55]

5♥ for me. Partner found a BOON at the four level, something good must have happened when I bid 3♥.

I didn't ask about scoring because I don't care.

[mcphee]

Pass is forcing, double says stop bidding partner. pick one

[jjbrr]

i dont understand anything except pass. i don't have extra strength, shape, offense, or defense from what i've already shown. making another call is just making noise because you like the sound of your own voice.

[helene_t]

agree with jjbrr, my vulnerable 3♥ bid can't be weaker than this, in fact partner might expect a better club suit.

[bluecalm]

Quote

in fact partner might expect a better club suit.

Or 6clubs - 5 hearts I believe.

[Phil]

I would have bid 2N (4 of a higher ranking suit), not double and certainly not 3♥.

A forcing pass boggles me mind.

I pass. I don't think 5♥ is going to be very profitable, but partner might.

[SteveMoe]

Strange, partner didn't make a negative double but did raise ♥ freely. Smells like 3-card support. Pass and hope partner doesn't think I'm really x=5=y=6. Ugh! I do not like the 3♥ bid. (I do like 2N showing a higher ranking 4-card suit idea....)

[billw55]

 SteveMoe, on 2012-August-22, 02:22, said:

Strange, partner didn't make a negative double but did raise ♥ freely. Smells like 3-card support. Pass and hope partner doesn't think I'm really x=5=y=6. Ugh! I do not like the 3♥ bid. (I do like 2N showing a higher ranking 4-card suit idea....)

I think he didn't make a negative double because he lacks the strength. 3♥ woke him up though. To me this means good offense in hearts, and with few hcp that must mean distribution. Something like 3541, 4540, 3550. Six hearts might also be possible. Although if I think this all the way out, it means the ♣K is probably working on defense and 4♠ is down if their hearts are 2-2. Ho hum, maybe it's all nonsense anyway.

[SteveMoe]

 billw55, on 2012-August-22, 06:14, said:

I think he didn't make a negative double because he lacks the strength. 3♥ woke him up though. To me this means good offense in hearts, and with few hcp that must mean distribution. Something like 3541, 4540, 3550. Six hearts might also be possible. Although if I think this all the way out, it means the ♣K is probably working on defense and 4♠ is down if their hearts are 2-2. Ho hum, maybe it's all nonsense anyway.

Good thought!
...and I like your optimism!
Regards,
Steve

[aguahombre]

 Phil, on 2012-August-21, 08:54, said:

I would have bid 2N (4 of a higher ranking suit), not double and certainly not 3♥.

A forcing pass boggles me mind.

I pass. I don't think 5♥ is going to be very profitable, but partner might.

Yes, to all of this. The "delay unusual" was made for this hand. Not to be confused with GB (when you have opened and partner has shown a response) or Leben (where it is your first response to an opening NT or t/o double) --- the delay unusual 2NT applies when you have opened or overcalled and a raise has come back to you without any action by partner.

It shows a 2-card disparity in two suits, with 6 of your first suit.

[gszes]

something about our 3h bid made partners hand a lot better. They did not
have to power to make a neg x yet suddenly they bid 4h. I strongly suspect this
is length. That same length makes our hand much less useful on defense where
4s might all too easily be ice cold. At IMPS

5h

is a stand out not just because it might make but because it also rates to be
cheap insurance agaisnt 4s making.

[ggwhiz]

I think pard has short clubs and some holding/length in spades as the reason to pass the first time.

Bidding 4♥ on a bust with length is leading with your chin when you can't defend 4♠.

I double (pard can pull but ONLY with a hope of making) and if it doesn't work it's an ATB with the really out there 3♥ bid as a likely culprit.

[TimG]

 aguahombre, on 2012-August-23, 01:09, said:

Yes, to all of this. The "delay unusual" was made for this hand. Not to be confused with GB (when you have opened and partner has shown a response) or Leben (where it is your first response to an opening NT or t/o double) --- the delay unusual 2NT applies when you have opened or overcalled and a raise has come back to you without any action by partner.

It shows a 2-card disparity in two suits, with 6 of your first suit.

Robson and Segal would play 2N as good/bad, I believe. Not saying they are right and you are wrong, but the way you say it makes it sound like yours is THE way.

[aguahombre]

 TimG, on 2012-August-23, 09:47, said:

Robson and Segal would play 2N as good/bad, I believe. Not saying they are right and you are wrong, but the way you say it makes it sound like yours is THE way.

Maybe they do that. I believe most people would not be coming back in for the 3-level after no action from partner without a good playing hand, anyway, and that delay unusual is a better use for 2NT than to call somewhat good "bad" and really good "good".

Anyway, what I posted is what I believe are common definitions for good/bad 2NT, Lebensohl 2NT, and delay unusual 2NT. I wouldn't presume to declare my way THE way to do anything.

[mr1303]

Partner held:

Kxx
10xxx
Kxxx
10x

and decided she was a bit too weak for a negative double.

I passed over 4S, but tanked forever and a day over it, so partner felt compelled to pass out 4S, which we took 3 off for a complete zero.

[Siegmund]

Shame your partner forgot to double it.

@aqua/tim: does it really matter if it's called GB2N or not, if it does the same thing, give you a way to show some of the two-suiters that aren't good enough to bid 3H directly? The world would be a better place if some of these were chunked. Always seemed silly to ee to have takeout, negative, responsive, and reopening doubles -- if we could go back to the 1920s they would all be called "negative" (not penalty). In the same way, there are a whole heap of auctions where, even without any firm agreement exactly which meaning applies, 2NT is "not natural, I want to compete, possibly in either of a couple strains."

The posted hand is about the weakest hand on which I would 3H rather than 2N.

[aguahombre]

 Siegmund, on 2012-August-26, 01:37, said:

The posted hand is about the weakest hand on which I would 3H rather than 2N.

IMO, it should be about the fewest number of hearts on which you would bid 3♥. Your playing strength to make that rebid opposite a CHO who did not act over a 1-level overcall is already huge to act at all. Bidding 3H with only 4 of them doesn't leave your partner with decent outs if she really has her first pass.

[ggwhiz]

 mr1303, on 2012-August-24, 15:24, said:

I passed over 4S, but tanked forever and a day over it, so partner felt compelled to pass out 4S, which we took 3 off for a complete zero.

Good on your partner. I would have doubled on your hand for reasons previously stated but even after the tank (ok, the coma ) I could defend a double by your pard as well.

Based on a 1 level overcall by them, a simple raise, a merely competitive 3 bid and a game bid by a hand that first wanted to play 2. That coupled with the expected strength of the 3♥ bid and my modest defensive holdings and zero extra offence = a defensible double. At any game too, especially at mp's where if they make it we were dead anyway.

Your partner will have a fine ethical reputation but may benefit from a bridge lawyer or paralegal course too. The NABC appeal casebooks are free reading and informative.