[Fluffy]

♠1098xx
♥Ax
♦AKxx
♣KJ


1♠-2♣
2♦-3NT

IMPs, vanilla 2/1

[quiddity]

pass

[sfi]

Pass. Partner has any number of actions with an interesting hand and chose none of them.

[Phil]

I think we are worth 4♣.

[the hog]

Pass and I don't even need to think to hard about this.

[lycier]

I am afraid of ♠ suit without any control for 3nt as a final contract,supposing responder have singleton in the ♠ with extra values,6♣ is just a good spot, so opener rebid 4♣ is a considerable auction for slam try.

[JLOGIC]

It depends what 3n means doesn't it? I would bid because I would assume it showed extras but I'm not sure if that's normal

[gwnn]

Play it safe and pass, after the board we can ask pd whether he/she promised extras. Passing when 3NT showed extras will not miss good slams often but bidding when 3NT showed no extras will find some bad slams often.

[quiddity]

I assumed 3NT showed extras (something like 15-17) and still passed. What is the argument for bidding? We have a guaranteed no-fit, a maximum of 32 hcp, a terrible long suit, and a partner who will probably upgrade for his "fitting" spade honor.

[Fluffy]

how many spades do people think 3NT shows?

[gwnn]

I prefer exactly 2 (and exactly 3 diamonds).

without discussion I guess 1-2.

[mich-b]

Fluffy, on 2012-November-13, 05:11, said:

how many spades do people think 3NT shows?

We play that it shows exactly 2. I don't know if that is "standard" or not.

[helene_t]

Partner shows 15-17 with typically 2335 or 2434 but could probably be 1435 or 2326. I think 4♣ will lead to a few good slams but too many bad ones. I pass.

[lycier]

gwnn, on 2012-November-13, 03:17, said:

Play it safe and pass, after the board we can ask pd whether he/she promised extras. Passing when 3NT showed extras will not miss good slams often but bidding when 3NT showed no extras will find some bad slams often.

After two over one respond showed game force,completely,so I think if responder rebid 2nt show 12-14hcp or 18-19hcp,but directely bid 3nt with 15-17hcp,extra values.
I think 4♣ will be a reasonable bid for a slam try in this hand.when opener have good support with extra values ,we may rebid 4♣ for slam try,orelse what can we do to show my decent hand?

Fluffy, on 2012-November-13, 05:11, said:

how many spades do people think 3NT shows?

Usually 3nt show 0-1card ♠ with extra values(15-17hcp) and a long ♣ suit.

[quiddity]

lycier, on 2012-November-13, 05:54, said:

Usually 3nt show 0-1card ♠ with extra values(15-17hcp) and a long ♣ suit.

I see.. now I understand bidding on. I thought 3NT showed a balanced 15-17, 2335 or 2434 etc; any hand interested in a club slam would start by rebidding clubs.

[aguahombre]

quiddity, on 2012-November-13, 10:58, said:

I see.. now I understand bidding on. I thought....... any hand interested in a club slam would start by rebidding clubs.

You obviously were confusing BBF bidding with RL bidding.

[Phil]

The reason I move is because:

- We have no spade wastage for a club contract. If partner has a stiff (probably an honor) or Ax, thats good news.

- My ♣KJ look like nice cards for partner.

- I am a non-minimum, and partner is showing extras.

I would like to be in slam across these hand types:

x, KQx QJxx AQxxx (and this probably doesn't justify the values for a 3N call)
Ax KJx QJx AQxxx (max, but passing would be terrible)
A KQx QJx Qxxxxx (awkward hand, but is it really right to rebid such a lousy suit?)

My biggest concern is that partner is 2344, and might take a bullish view, so I am far from confident that 4♣ is the right forward 'nudge'. Maybe 4♦ is, but I think passing is the wrong approach on this hand.

[Phil]

By the way, the only partner that I have had an in-depth conversation about this auction with was Sathya. After hours of partnership bidding practice, we came to the idea that the best way to structure 2N and 3N rebids (after specifically 1M - 2x - 2y or 2M - 2N/3N) was not on values, but rather:

1. 3N is VERY specific ("pure"). Its like an old-fashioned 1M - 2N call, so exactly 12-14, not six cards in responder's suit, good stoppers in the 3rd /4th suit, not a side four carder, and probably exactly a doubleton in opener's.

2. 2N was a catchall. It included awkward hands for responder that didn't fit neatly into 3N or other descriptive rebids. I think Gnasher suggested inverting 2N and 3♣ which would help in a lot of cases when responder had an anti-positional stopper, or was open in a side suit.

If I had these agreements with the OP hand this would be an easy pass.

[PhilKing]

It seems a lot of us play that 3NT is a mild slam try (15-17) with typically a 2335 distribution. For me it HAS to be that shape. The real problem is that partner may have the ten of clubs, which could make six clubs huge opposite not much. Even the nine could make it very good.

Give him:

♠Ax ♥KTx ♦QJx ♣AQTxx

And now you are cold for SEVEN clubs.

♠Kx ♥KJx ♦Qxx ♣AQTxx

Gives you a great chance for six despite the minimum count.

♠AJ ♥KQx ♦QJx ♣QT9xx

Is solid without a spade lead and cold if partner has the ♠Q.

I would move with 4♣. If partner drives slam, it should be pretty decent, and we can still stop in 4NT when 4♣ does not turn him on.

[aguahombre]

Why would we be worried about 2-3-4-4 or 1-3-4-5? I see nothing in the OP "vanilla 2/1" conditions which would suggest responder couldn't rebid 3♦ with hands in the 15-17 range and those shapes.

We are really going for the 5-2 club fit with 4C, describing 5-1-4-3 with extras to elicit pard's cooperation. Yep, I might do that; but, there are risks and I think it commits us to a suit contract.