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another rant about wk 2bids

#1 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2012-December-29, 00:15

If your weak 2bid shows 5 in the bid major and an unknown minor...ok but tell us unknown minor not both majors
If your weak 2bid is 6-10 ...ok


if your weak 2bid is other ok...but please tell us.....
for example if zero or close to zero ....ok tell us.....

this time I just dismissed all your expl.
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-December-29, 22:00

Huh? Context please.

#3 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2012-December-30, 07:16

I certainly agree that if 2 shows hearts and a minor, we should be told. Beyond that, I am fine with silence although I suppose if 2 is regularly on five cards headed by the nine maybe something should be said. Here is a hand from yesterday, I am sitting South.



The opening lead is the heart 8.

Even before dummy hits, I am wondering what's up. Lho passed but now came in with 2. Do the opponents owe me an explanation of why she did not open 2? In my opinion they do not. As far as my own side is concerned, I have played with N before and regard him as a good partner, but I have no idea if he would open 1NT holding a five card spade suit. I decided, correctly as it turned out, to play W for a weak six card suit. I figured if that was wrong and she had come in on five, this should be a very good board for us no matter what I assumed. She had six, it was a good board for us anyway.

For most of us, details about just how strong our suit is often presumes more agreements than we have. I play with a guy on Thursdays who opens a weak 2 vulnerable, even vulnerable against not, on suits that would give me pause when not vulnerable. But even I don't have hard and fast two of the top three or three of the top five rules. I take lots of things into account, but if I open 2 red versus white, partner can proceed on the assumption that my hand won't be an embarrassment.

If opponents inquire, and if I have played with a partner long enough to be able to make a reasonable estimate of what to expect, then yes, I tell them. With one partner who has now moved to Florida, if he opened 1NT and the opponents asked if he ever shaded the 15-17, I could say that I had never seen him do it. I resist putting him in a box by saying that he would never do it. With another partner he now writes the card as 14+-17. I appreciate this because in fact he often shaded the 15. I still (usually) hold out for 15. I'm a Capricorn and I have been told that Capricorns have their bids.

As barmar says, context counts here. The other day, sitting third seat, after P-1 I bid 3 holding seven to the AKQ and the King of clubs. I doubted 4 would have a play, which it didn't, and 3 may cause them grief, which it did. My 3 doesn't show that hand, I just had that hand.

Anyway, specific agreements such as 2M promising an outside minor should certainly be alerted. I have found that it usually is, although there have been times when after the cards have been played I am tempted to say something along the lines of "You call four to the king an outside minor?".


Indeed, context counts.
Ken
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#4 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-December-30, 11:52

Actually, the context I was looking for was why this was brought up in the first place. The way it's written seems to suggest that misinformation about artificial weak 2 bids is common.

#5 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-December-30, 15:15

Barmar welcome to the forums!
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
- billw55
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#6 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2012-December-30, 16:22

I used to play weak twos
that showed only five card suit and four card side suit
we alerted it

we played
2 showed diamonds/hearts or diamond/clubs
2 showed hearts/spades or hearts/clubs
2 showed spades with a minor

anchor suits were five cards in order to fulfill acbl regs for a weak two bid
we alerted cause they were not your typical weak two bids


Barry Crane used to frequently open 4 card suits as a weak two, little alone
whatever Bergen and Cohen did later on, ACBL made up the 5-5 rule to try and
reel this type of stuff in.
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