[nige1]

StevenG, on 2013-April-22, 08:40, said:

In retrospect it might be a good idea. It would be nice to get rid of that pesky multi-2♦ (at least at club level). Of course, having to alert everything that wasn't Polish Club might be a bit annoying.

Zelandakh, on 2013-April-22, 08:49, said:

Nige might be onto something - at the same time we could also add to the Laws a universal bidding and cardplay system so we can remove the whole set of regulations for alerts, announcements, MI and (the equivalent of) BSCs and HUMs. Perhaps we could go a stage further and regulate the size of the tables. Gone will be the days of not knowing where to place your coffee mug/beer glass. Perhaps we could also regulate a minimum number of hcp for every player to receive during a session - I am sure that would go down well with players who always feel they get bad hands. The possibilities are endless.

Mostly strawmen I wouldn't expect anything so radical
I confess, however, that I'd prefer a new rule that allowed only two tiers of system-agreement:

• Standard system card: You wouldn't be allowed to augment or to amend but you could cross-out.
• Anything goes: BSCs, HUMs, encrypted calls/signals, and so on (adequately disclosed and with officially approved defences).

Also, I'd like a new rule to replace alerts with announcements (as explained in other threads). Benefits include simple universal disclosure regulations

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on 2013-April-22, 01:42, said:

I think "bid box" is acceptable as long as "bid" is being used as a noun rather than as a verb. A "bid box" is a box containing bids (cf "biscuit barrel"), and a "bidding box" is a box that we use for bidding.

Anyway, both terms are inaccurate: the box doesn't actually contain bids and we don't use the box itself for bidding. A better term would be "bidding-card box".

Call box was taken.

[FrancesHinden]

Vampyr, on 2013-April-22, 05:43, said:

Seriously? And there are no sidewalks and you never eat eggplant? I can't see what reason there is to disrespect another region's terminology and pretend you don't know what they are talking about.

Why was my comment in any way disrespectful? Why do think it suggests that I don't know what they are talking about? In fact, if I (wanted to pretend) I didn't know, I would be asking what a bid box was.

[GreenMan]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-April-22, 14:49, said:

Why was my comment in any way disrespectful? Why do think it suggests that I don't know what they are talking about? In fact, if I (wanted to pretend) I didn't know, I would be asking what a bid box was.

For us to believe that you weren't being snidely superior, we'd have to believe that you were saying that there are no bidding boxes in the U.K. Is that, in fact, what you were saying?

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2013-April-22, 08:36, said:

Possibly. I remember years ago having a dish of Eggplant Parmesan that was outstanding. Since that one time I've not had any eggplant dish (including several tries at Eggplant Parmesan, both at home and in restaurants) that was worth eating.

It's a shame you have not had my Eggplant Parmesan.

[Vampyr]

nige1, on 2013-April-22, 07:00, said:

Rule-makers may deem such advice excessive (but it may well be useful, if concisely expressed).

And where does it end? Should the Laws stipulate whether running scores should be shown on a screen? This will place at a disadvantage visitors wo are used/unused to estimating their results. Likewise showing the percentages on the Bridgemates. What is the solution if two teams are tied at the end of a 32-coard match? Should foreigners be allowed to play in non-unlimited masterpoint events? Should the club bar carry sparkling rosé?

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2013-April-22, 19:36, said:

It's a shame you have not had my Eggplant Parmesan.

Send me the recipe. :-)

[nige1]

Vampyr, on 2013-April-22, 19:54, said:

And where does it end? Should the Laws stipulate whether running scores should be shown on a screen? This will place at a disadvantage visitors wo are used/unused to estimating their results. Likewise showing the percentages on the Bridgemates. What is the solution if two teams are tied at the end of a 32-coard match? Should foreigners be allowed to play in non-unlimited masterpoint events? Should the club bar carry sparkling rosé?

I've answered this question before The rule-book would just integrate current laws, WBF correction minutes, and regulations. Rule-makers would pick and choose. Thus, I'm afraid that they might omit your Orange Book regulation that mandates what rosé the bar must carry But they might include topics like tie-splitting, for example IMO the integrated rule-book would be easier for players and directors to understand and consult but be no more bulky than current laws plus regulations As icing on the cake, rule-makers might elect to restructure, drop unnecessary rules, simplify existing rules, and add some new ones

[gordontd]

nige1, on 2013-April-22, 22:13, said:

I've answered this question before The rule-book would just integrate current laws, WBF correction minutes, and regulations. Rule-makers would pick and choose. Thus, I'm afraid that they might omit your Orange Book regulation that mandates what rosé the bar must carry But they might include topics like tie-splitting, for example IMO the integrated rule-book would be easier for players and directors to understand and consult but be no more bulky than current laws plus regulations As icing on the cake, rule-makers might elect to restructure, drop unnecessary rules, simplify existing rules, and add some new ones

Good luck with this project, Nigel! I'll look forward to being invited to the launch party.

[nige1]

gordontd, on 2013-April-23, 01:18, said:

Good luck with this project, Nigel! I'll look forward to being invited to the launch party.

Thank you, Gordon
I hope something is done before bridge is on its last legs. Bridge is already in decline -- mainly due to factors outwith our control. But the morass of unclear, complex, fragmented, laws, regulations, minutes and COC is an unnecessary turn-off.

The basic mechanics of Bridge are simple. The problem is over-complexity and inconsistency in defining and coping with infractions.

• The long learning curve deters would-be players from learning Bridge.
• Beginners can get a nasty shock when they venture from class into a club. Irate opponents call the director who rules against them. The ruling is correct in law. The director takes time to explain it. A bright beginner may even understand some of it. But he feels the game is not worth all the hassle.
• Experienced players can't understand the rules. When the director is called, they complain that they're being accused of cheating. They threaten they will never come back again if ruled against. In spite of the efforts of the director to mollify them, they feel victimised. Sometimes they make good their threat.
• Experts want consistent rulings. On identical facts, directors give different rulings. Judgement is subjective so some inconsistency is inevitable. Unfortunately (but unsurprisingly in view of the chaotic structure), few directors know all relevant Bridge rules. Few directors and fewer players understand them. Different directors interpret sophisticated (arguably over-sophisticated) rules differently. Also, bridge law-makers make a positive virtue of reliance (arguably over-reliance) on the subjective judgement of directors. For example, often (arguably too often), rule-makers expect the director to divine a player's thoughts. Hence experts complain about "Bum rulings". Experts are unlikely to give up the game but their dissatisfaction puts others off.

Criticism of the above argument is welcome Less welcome is the usual army of straw-men

[barmar]

nige1, on 2013-April-23, 10:36, said:

But the morass of unclear, complex, fragmented, laws, regulations, minutes and COC are a turn-off.

I doubt they have much of an impact on the popularity of the game. Problems due to the types of issues we debate here come up very rarely. Players who are on the fence probably don't play enough to run into them very much, so there's little opportunity for them to be turned off by them. The players who encounter them enough to be annoyed by them are mostly addicted to the game, so it will take more than a few confusing laws to drive them away.

Bridge's decline is much more due to general cultural issues than arcana about the rules of the game.