[lalldonn]

PhilKing, on 2013-February-21, 11:27, said:

Trouble is, that requires one or both opponents psyched and partner missorted. Occam's razor suggests the 8-3 explanation, since it requires only one comedian.

Two comedians. I include the one who decides his agreement doesn't apply despite having no idea what is going on.

[fromageGB]

OBVIOUSLY it is keycard. An immediate 4♠ would have been the 8 card suit, to play. He bids 2♥ fully expecting the opponents to bid something again, and now, having shown support with a raise in the suit, 4♠ is kickback. I wouldn't even hesitate or blink.

Having said that, this is not my kickback rule.

[PhilKing]

Perhaps knowing what our hand is would help clarify things. Still no actual constructions for the RKCB hand, only theories, the schizo dogwalker being my favourite.

[lalldonn]

PhilKing, on 2013-February-21, 11:51, said:

Perhaps knowing what our hand is would help clarify things. Still no actual constructions for the RKCB hand, only theories, the schizo dogwalker being my favourite.

Partner either saw his hand wrong, pulled the wrong bidding card (was reaching for 2♦ showing a better raise?), saw the auction wrong (thought you had overcalled 1♠ and he was bidding a natural 2♥?), or (if you insist) schizo dog walker. All of those theories allow for almost any hand, and I don't see what we gain by inventing one.

My favorite reason thus far for why 4♠ is natural is that he can't have a keycard bid anyway because the opposition bidding makes it impossible. As though you would normally pass a keycard ask because the opponents have bid strongly.

[fromageGB]

barmar, on 2013-February-21, 09:59, said:

it was a jump bid, so you should wait a bit just for that reason. That's allowed and should be sufficient for him to notice his error.

You're on thin ground here. It is the opposition who are supposed to pause. Even if they pass in a split second you should take no longer than your typical tempo. To do otherwise is giving UI.

[sfi]

Zelandakh, on 2013-February-21, 06:52, said:

Are you allowed to pause for this reason? Is this a variation in tempo that may work to the benefit of our side? It is certainly not unintentional.

I don't think you can pause for this specific reason, but surely nobody who plays Kickback is going to do anything in tempo at this particular point of the auction.

[PhilKing]

sfi, on 2013-February-21, 12:11, said:

I don't think you can pause for this specific reason, but surely nobody who plays Kickback is going to do anything in tempo at this particular point of the auction.

Some of them have insta-responded.

[sfi]

PhilKing, on 2013-February-21, 12:29, said:

Some of them have insta-responded.

Easy enough to say in a forum post, but at the table I would be astonished if there weren't a pause for thought.

[JLOGIC]

lalldonn, on 2013-February-21, 11:23, said:

8-3 would not bid 2♥ lol. I mean if I'm really trying to guess what happened, partner saw his hand wrong, like he had xx Qxx xxx KQJxx and then one of his spade x turned out to be the ace of clubs and he had x Qxx xxx AKQJxx, well not that exact hand because of 1♣ and 3♣ but you get the idea.

I think the thing you're wrong about here s that partner would then bid 4S keycard. If this ever happened I think he would bid 4N.

Edit: or he might bid 4C then 4S. Or whatever. I mean this is a nonsensical excersize anyways lol, but I think if he wanted to keycard 4S directly would be a poor choice. If he wanted to bid 4S natural somehow, doing it now would be his only option.

[lalldonn]

I mean, he plays 4♠ as keycard so I think that's what he would bid! I agree this is a bit nonsensical. Thanks for the fun gwnn.

[gwnn]

Full hand+auction for people who can't wait:

Spoiler

---

+1000. We had no chance of getting doubled (and of them not pulling the penalty redouble) without the misunderstanding. Diamond honours other than the ace are just a reconstruction.

[mikeh]

gwnn, on 2013-February-21, 14:24, said:

Full hand+auction for people who can't wait:

Spoiler

---

+1000. We had no chance of getting doubled (and of them not pulling the penalty redouble) without the misunderstanding. Diamond honours other than the ace are just a reconstruction.

I couldn't get the hand diagram to open

[PhilKing]

mikeh, on 2013-February-21, 14:42, said:

I couldn't get the hand diagram to open

Works for me - the Schizophrenic dog-walker explanation was correct.

[helene_t]

Weird i can't read this post on android . Only the poll options

[aguahombre]

My hesitation after 4S should be expected. I needed time to pick myself up and get back in my chair.

Of course, kickback DNE after this earlier auction; but, I am not passing. Problem I have is I don't know whether partner has actually discovered his unintentional mispull.

If he had discovered it by the time 3H was doubled, he could have redoubled and then launched, but I don't believe I can do anything else but answer keycard.

[jeffford76]

fromageGB, on 2013-February-21, 12:06, said:

You're on thin ground here. It is the opposition who are supposed to pause. Even if they pass in a split second you should take no longer than your typical tempo. To do otherwise is giving UI.

I don't think this is correct. I think you can agree with your partner to always "complete the pause". The skip bid waiting period is to avoid UI from both sides.

[aguahombre]

I would like to know what my typical tempo should be for the given situation. And, if I exceed that and pass, or exceed that and bid ---what UI am I giving? It is AI when I pass that I think partner has spades; it is AI when I respond to Kickback that I have a certain number of keycards. The fact that I was confused and then chose would be AI to anyone at the table, for they would be confused as well.

[han]

To me the most likely explanation is that partner wanted to bid 2S on the previous round and grabbed the wrong card, only to discover it a round later.

I would certainly pass.

[the hog]

han, on 2013-February-21, 18:05, said:

To me the most likely explanation is that partner wanted to bid 2S on the previous round and grabbed the wrong card, only to discover it a round later.

I would certainly pass.

I agree with this. Your pd deserves to play in 4S. To answer the question as to how to bid the hand, I would respond "differently". Your pd makes a nf raise and then pulls Bwood? Does he play for money by chance? Can we arrange a game please?

[lalldonn]

the hog, on 2013-February-21, 18:23, said:

I agree with this. Your pd deserves to play in 4S. To answer the question as to how to bid the hand, I would respond "differently". Your pd makes a nf raise and then pulls Bwood? Does he play for money by chance? Can we arrange a game please?

You should hope he is on your side, since he just got you a +1000.

Could you please explain why partner "deserves" to get a bad score just because you don't like how he bid his hand? I usually think people have to be rude or offensive to deserve negative outcomes, not simply play what I consider bad bridge. But if it was based on bad bridge, I would think the person who deserves to play a stupid contract is the one who passed his partner's keycard ask by their agreements.