[joostb1]

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This is a theoretical case, as published in the magazine of the Dutch union. The 2♠ bid is alerted and explained as 5-card ♠ plus a 4+ minor suit. NS, both young and enthousiastic, have this agreement, but N decided that he wanted 'to do something' with his 8-card spades. For argument's sake, let's asume that he might also have opened muli 2♦.
What do you do if EW call you, because they feel cheated, also because they didn't know that N could bid vul with only 1 HCP?

[c_corgi]

Suggest they play at Brighton instead.

[hrothgar]

joostb1, on 2013-September-29, 09:31, said:

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This is a theoretical case, as published in the magazine of the Dutch union. The 2♠ bid is alerted and explained as 5-card ♠ plus a 4+ minor suit. NS, both young and enthousiastic, have this agreement, but N decided that he wanted 'to do something' with his 8-card spades. For argument's sake, let's asume that he might also have opened muli 2♦.
What do you do if EW call you, because they feel cheated, also because they didn't know that N could bid vul with only 1 HCP?

Does the Netherlands have laws forbidding one to psyche a conventional bid?

[RMB1]

I tell EW that (on the evidence available) NS do not have an agreement or an understanding to open 2♠ on this hand.

The 2♠ bid is a psyche and psyches are permitted.

If North (or South) continue to make bids like this on hands like this in this partnership, then NS will develop a partnership understanding which must be disclosed.

I will take a record of the hand if there is a regulation for such records to be made.

[awm]

I'm a bit curious about the 4♠ bid. With (apparently) only an eight-card fit and a flat hand, is this normal bridge at red/white? It certainly seems to cater to opener having (much!) more shape than he purportedly promised, which of course opener delivers. Could be close to the "fielded psych" range in this respect.

[joostb1]

hrothgar, on 2013-September-29, 09:49, said:

Does the Netherlands have laws forbidding one to psyche a conventional bid?

No. But psychic bids that the system protects, are not allowed. E.g. You play 2♣ as strong, forcing partner to bid 2♦, but you have a weak two in diamonds and pass. That's not allowed.
In this case, partner can bid 2NT, either strong or weak, but forcing you to bid your minor suit. This N will then bid spades.

[billw55]

As director, I tell EW that there has been no infraction.

As EW's bridge teacher, I tell them to find a way into the auction with 34 high card points, a double fit, and double shortness in the opponents suit.

[hrothgar]

joostb1, on 2013-September-29, 12:53, said:

No. But psychic bids that the system protects, are not allowed. E.g. You play 2♣ as strong, forcing partner to bid 2♦, but you have a weak two in diamonds and pass. That's not allowed.
In this case, partner can bid 2NT, either strong or weak, but forcing you to bid your minor suit. This N will then bid spades.

I'd rule that there was no infraction.

The fact that you can construct a hypothetical auction has little bearing on the events at the table.
Had South bid 2NT, and had North rebid 3S, you might be able to get some sympathy.
Here you're grasping at straws.

Even if there was an infraction, you're still headed for a bad board.
Your bad result was subsequent to the 2S psyche, but it wasn't consequent.

I haven't seen what hands you chose to pass on, but between you and your partner you hold 34 HCPS and a grand total of 2 spades.
You should be able to protect yourself.

[nige1]

I agree that the director should probably rule "result stands". Perhaps, however, he should first try to establish that "Young and enthusiastic" isn't a euphemism for "Undisciplined". For example, many players often open 2-bids that don't meet the shape/range requirements declared on their system-card.

[helene_t]

Obviously EW get the table result since their bad result was self-inflicted. That part is easy.

As for NS, I might ask S why he bid 4♠. But unless he admitted to having bid on some vibrations from his partner, it won't matter what he says.

The 2♠ bid looks more like a psyche than a concealed agreement. But it is not looked favourably upon in the NL to call your 2♠ opening "Muiderberg" unless it is really 99.99% certain to be based on five spades and 4+ of a minor so I would advice NS to make sure that their CC describes their de facto agreements.

[Sjoerds]

Actually in the Dutch magazine EW dbl 2♠ and 4♠. So in that case there is imo no SEWoG for EW

But I would like to discuss that this "psych" is not protected by the system.
2♠ can only be a weak hand and even if partner is strong and asks with 2SA for the minor or strength it is obvious that he will pass after 3♠ or even 4♠.

[WellSpyder]

Sjoerds, on 2013-October-09, 04:25, said:

But I would like to discuss that this "psych" is not protected by the system.
2♠ can only be a weak hand and even if partner is strong and asks with 2NT for the minor or strength it is obvious that he will pass after 3♠ or even 4♠.

Isn't it the hand that protects you from disaster rather than the system?

[Sjoerds]

WellSpyder, on 2013-October-09, 04:36, said:

Isn't it the hand that protects you from disaster rather than the system?

Does that mean that you can do what you like with hands like this one?
I think a player might know the "young and enthusiastic" nature of partner and will most likely do the right thing.
Some say "if it happens for the first time it is okay" but that nature exists longer...