Help
ewj, on 2013-October-21, 06:28, said:
Love all, IMPs, longish match.
What do people think about 4♥?
What do people think about 4♥?
I think the 4♥ bid would have more going for it if the hand would have been
Rainer Herrmann
What to open
#21
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,092
- Joined: 2005-June-27
Posted 2013-October-24, 02:40
I think the 4♥ bid would have more going for it if the hand would have been
Rainer Herrmann
#22
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,531
- Joined: 2005-October-09
- Location:Netherlands
Posted 2013-October-24, 04:00
rhm, on 2013-October-24, 02:40, said:
I think the 4♥ bid would have more going for it if the hand would have been
Rainer Herrmann
Rainer Herrmann
Certainly! And this would have been even better:
I would have been richer if I would have been Lionel Messi.
Unfortunately, we have to bid the hands that we are dealt, not the hands that would be better for our bids.
As to the actual hand: My partner wouldn't hear any complaints from me whether he chose to open 1♥ or 4♥.
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!), but Thats funny Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!), but Thats funny Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#23
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,092
- Joined: 2005-June-27
Posted 2013-October-24, 04:28
Trinidad, on 2013-October-24, 04:00, said:
Certainly! And this would have been even better:
I would have been richer if I would have been Lionel Messi.
Unfortunately, we have to bid the hands that we are dealt, not the hands that would be better for our bids.
As to the actual hand: My partner wouldn't hear any complaints from me whether he chose to open 1♥ or 4♥.
Rik
I would have been richer if I would have been Lionel Messi.
Unfortunately, we have to bid the hands that we are dealt, not the hands that would be better for our bids.
As to the actual hand: My partner wouldn't hear any complaints from me whether he chose to open 1♥ or 4♥.
Rik
If you do not get the point I am making, do not post on the expert forum.
There are some other forums more suitable for you
Rainer Herrmann
#24
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,531
- Joined: 2005-October-09
- Location:Netherlands
Posted 2013-October-24, 05:57
rhm, on 2013-October-24, 04:28, said:
If you do not get the point I am making, do not post on the expert forum.
There are some other forums more suitable for you
Rainer Herrmann
There are some other forums more suitable for you
Rainer Herrmann
Of course, I got the point you were making.
Do you think that experts are waiting for someone to point out to them that honor structure could be relevant when choosing your initial action? Or do you think -on reflection- that most experts have seen something like that before?
The question at hand is not: "Gee, what hand would I rather have?". The question is "What would I open with the hand I got dealt?". You didn't answer that question yet.
If you meant to write: "I am not against opening 6-5 hands with 4♥, but I would not do that on the actual hand because I don't like the honor structure. Make it [rhm's hand] and I would open 4♥ any day." then why didn't you do that? That would have added something useful to the discussion.
But as it is you only wrote that your hand would be better suited for 4♥. You didn't write whether you thought the actual hand was good for a 4♥ opening (or what other action you would choose). You didn't even write whether you would open 4♥ on the hand that you constructed.
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!), but Thats funny Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!), but Thats funny Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#25
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 303
- Joined: 2005-April-12
Posted 2013-October-24, 06:42
Trinidad, on 2013-October-24, 05:57, said:
Of course, I got the point you were making.
Do you think that experts are waiting for someone to point out to them that honor structure could be relevant when choosing your initial action? Or do you think -on reflection- that most experts have seen something like that before?
The question at hand is not: "Gee, what hand would I rather have?". The question is "What would I open with the hand I got dealt?". You didn't answer that question yet.
If you meant to write: "I am not against opening 6-5 hands with 4♥, but I would not do that on the actual hand because I don't like the honor structure. Make it [rhm's hand] and I would open 4♥ any day." then why didn't you do that? That would have added something useful to the discussion.
But as it is you only wrote that your hand would be better suited for 4♥. You didn't write whether you thought the actual hand was good for a 4♥ opening (or what other action you would choose). You didn't even write whether you would open 4♥ on the hand that you constructed.
Rik
Do you think that experts are waiting for someone to point out to them that honor structure could be relevant when choosing your initial action? Or do you think -on reflection- that most experts have seen something like that before?
The question at hand is not: "Gee, what hand would I rather have?". The question is "What would I open with the hand I got dealt?". You didn't answer that question yet.
If you meant to write: "I am not against opening 6-5 hands with 4♥, but I would not do that on the actual hand because I don't like the honor structure. Make it [rhm's hand] and I would open 4♥ any day." then why didn't you do that? That would have added something useful to the discussion.
But as it is you only wrote that your hand would be better suited for 4♥. You didn't write whether you thought the actual hand was good for a 4♥ opening (or what other action you would choose). You didn't even write whether you would open 4♥ on the hand that you constructed.
Rik
Yawn...I think Rainer's post basically said just that....That he wouldn't have opened on the hand I gave but might have done with the one he then posted.
#26
- World International Master without a clue
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,404
- Joined: 2003-November-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:madrid
Posted 2013-October-24, 06:57
Last time I open 4♥ agressively I collected a big fat bottom, it was something like 7222 with ♥AKQxxxx and a side queen. The problem is: with weak fields it makes no sense.
On this hand the heart quality is bad for preempting as has been pointed out before.
On this hand the heart quality is bad for preempting as has been pointed out before.
#27
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,281
- Joined: 2005-January-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Interests:Art, music
Posted 2013-October-24, 07:08
4H is why the experts win.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#28
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2013-October-24, 08:02
Winstonm, on 2013-October-24, 07:08, said:
4H is why the experts win.
Is THAT why the experts win? I always thought it had something to do with play and defense, as well as judgment in the bidding. And all this time it was 4♥.
#29
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,281
- Joined: 2005-January-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Interests:Art, music
Posted 2013-October-24, 08:34
ArtK78, on 2013-October-24, 08:02, said:
Is THAT why the experts win? I always thought it had something to do with play and defense, as well as judgment in the bidding. And all this time it was 4♥.
I should rephrase: Your 4H bid with this hand against the expert is why the expert wins.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#30
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,029
- Joined: 2009-February-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. George, UT
Posted 2013-October-24, 08:52
Winstonm, on 2013-October-24, 08:34, said:
I should rephrase: Your 4H bid with this hand against the expert is why the expert wins.
Careful there. Your rephrase implies that Art --to whom you are responding--would have bid 4H. He is on record disapproving 4H.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#31
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2013-October-24, 09:16
aguahombre, on 2013-October-24, 08:52, said:
Careful there. Your rephrase implies that Art --to whom you are responding--would have bid 4H. He is on record disapproving 4H.
Clearly I am no expert.
#32
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2013-October-24, 12:30
rhm, on 2013-October-24, 04:28, said:
If you do not get the point I am making, do not post on the expert forum.
There are some other forums more suitable for you
Rainer Herrmann
There are some other forums more suitable for you
Rainer Herrmann
LOL
With this definition most of the experts in BBF, including Justin, Roger etc etc, should not write in this forum, regarding to their failure to understand the points you made in the past in this forum.
I know being an expert is not as easy as most people think it is. But if one of the requirements was to make a sense of what Rainer is suggesting, then it would be hard to find an expert on the planet.
Back to the topic, i would not have opened 4♥ with this hand. I strongly agree with Wank that 4 M openings are under valued among most players. I also agree with Rik that i would not have made it a problem if my pd opened this 4♥ or 1♥
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#33
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,952
- Joined: 2008-June-23
- Gender:Male
Posted 2013-October-24, 15:06
Opening 4♥ is often a transfer to 4♠ by them and regardless you just took partners bidding box away.
I can only stomach it if you are playing with a bot.
I can only stomach it if you are playing with a bot.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
What is baby oil made of?
#34
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-March-07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Laos
- Interests:Wagner and Bridge
Posted 2013-October-24, 18:00
I would open 1H. 4H seems silly to me.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#35
- 5555
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,519
- Joined: 2003-September-04
- Gender:Male
Posted 2013-October-24, 18:56
rhm, on 2013-October-24, 04:28, said:
If you do not get the point I am making, do not post on the expert forum.
There are some other forums more suitable for you
There are some other forums more suitable for you
It seems you didn't get the point Rik was making.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#36
- 5555
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,519
- Joined: 2003-September-04
- Gender:Male
Posted 2013-October-24, 19:06
I really think it's close. The hand is awful for a preempt but 4♥ is just so good. Still, awfulness of the hand wins here IMO.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke