[Hanoi5]

---

You're missing the trump queen so 7 might be out of the question. However you're playing MP's, do you bid 6NT? how do you try to find one of the red kings in order to 'feel' safer? Would you have bid differently previously? (East opened 1 Heart)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

3S shows 17 hcp...
You have 18 hcp + 17 + the missing ♠Q = 37.

Thus, 3 hcp are missing ... possibly either the ♥K or ♦K.

You can make 6NT with either one missing:
♦K missing :
-- tricks are: 2s, 5h, 4c, 1d ... and an overtrick if ♦ finesse working.

♥K missing:
--tricks are: 2s 1h, 3d, 4c ... and more Hts if finesse loses.( might make 13 )

[sfi]

deleted

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-December-25, 17:02, said:

3S shows 17 hcp...

Does it? What would you bid with a 4531 14 count?

One of the interesting agreements that you can have at MPs that is usually unsuitable for IMPs is to allow king-asking without all of the key cards. The style requires that if key card-shower at any point would like to bid grand opposite all key cards they instead bid 6NT. In this instance, such an agreement would allow you to continue 5NT. If partner has the ♦K then they will not show it and you can confidently switch to NT. If partner were to think that 7♠ would make here and go 6NT, they must have a very strange hand indeed. In that case there must surely be good play for 7♥.

In truth the chances of partner jumping to 7♠ over 5NT are so remote that I think this approach is worth it even without this special agreement. In the highly unlikely case of a 7♠ jump I would correct to 7NT and be surprised if that had no play. In practise, partner is just going to show us their red suit king and then we can place the contract.

[HighLow21]

Playing matchpoints, I have a serious dilemma. I would probably go 6♠ on account of the fact that partner has only 4 minor suit cards at most. We could be down 4 in 6NT whereas 6♠ will depend on finding the queen at worst.

Other than matchpoints, 6♠ has no parallel.

[mikeh]

6N seems pretty clear to me at mps. At imps, I'd chose 6♥. I wouldn't choose spades at any scoring: it could very easily be the only failing slam of the 3 plausible candidates. Picture bad spades and a bad break. While neither 6N nor 6♥ are bullet-proof, I'd expect both to be superior. I choose hearts at imps primarily, but not only, to protect partner's possibly vulnerable diamond holding.

[MrAce]

mikeh, on 2014-January-15, 01:08, said:

6N seems pretty clear to me at mps. At imps, I'd chose 6♥. I wouldn't choose spades at any scoring: it could very easily be the only failing slam of the 3 plausible candidates. Picture bad spades and a bad break. While neither 6N nor 6♥ are bullet-proof, I'd expect both to be superior. I choose hearts at imps primarily, but not only, to protect partner's possibly vulnerable diamond holding.

I am pretty sure some pairs have disabled themselves from playing 6♥ in this auction, due to their system. It is debatable which one is better; to return to 6 of opener's first suit is to play after finding a fit in other major and keycarding on it, or play it something else of your choice.

But even if they did not disable themselves from bidding 6♥ natural, do you play this as strictly sign off or is it COS ?

[mikeh]

MrAce, on 2014-January-15, 07:01, said:

I am pretty sure some pairs have disabled themselves from playing 6♥ in this auction, due to their system. It is debatable which one is better; to return to 6 of opener's first suit is to play after finding a fit in other major and keycarding on it, or play it something else of your choice.

But even if they did not disable themselves from bidding 6♥ natural, do you play this as strictly sign off or is it COS ?

You are probably right, in that once we bid 4N, we have likely committed ourselves to having 6♥ taken as some form of try for grand. I didn't stop to think about that, since I was more focused on explaining why I would never bid 6♠.

This raises an interesting question, in terms of how do we get out of the 4-4 once we find it?

Of course, it is possible to respond 2♣ to the 1♥, and I don't think that is out of line to suggest in this part of BBF.

Had we done so, then I assume, due to the 3♠ call, that opener would have bid 2♠, which is commonly but not universally played as showing some extras, tho not promising the same values as a full-blooded reverse.

Now responder gets to be the one bidding 3♠, which is clearly a slam try....indeed, I think it mandatory because many hands with KQxx in spades will offer a play for grand, assuming we're not off the diamond A, while affording a play only for 12 tricks in hearts or notrump. We can't find out about the spade Q if we set hearts as trump.

How the auction progresses beyond this is dependent on opener's hand. I suspect that we will get to cuebid hearts, have partner sign-off, and then we make another move.

In what may be an impossibly 'perfect' world, we'd have the auction go something like:

1♥ 2♣
2♠ 3♠
4♦ 4♥
4♠ 6♥


The 4♥ call implies a club control, so opener won't be worried about that. The 4♠ call would be based on what we now know is a hand with very weak majors, and hence no strong slam interest: he has at best KJxx KJxxx.

In that context, 6♥ is a choice of slams.

I think it abundantly clear that opener should pass with Kxxx KJxxx. I think it debatable what he should do with KJxx KJxxx or even KJxx Kxxxx. However, I am happy enough to be playing 6♠, rather than 6♥, from his side anytime he has KJxx. Provided we have enough side winners, we can safety play A9xx opposite KJxx for one loser. My fear of spades is because he might hold Kxxx and 2 losers are unavoidable on a 4-1 break.

Btw, if partner doesn't sign off over 4♥, he will have extras in the context of the auction so far, and given what our majors look like, we are probably going to be fine, and indeed may be able to bid a good grand. I can't imagine him moving without decent spades, given his horrible hearts (for slam purposes...at best KJ9xx).

[cherdano]

MrAce, on 2014-January-15, 07:01, said:

I am pretty sure some pairs have disabled themselves from playing 6♥ in this auction, due to their system. It is debatable which one is better; to return to 6 of opener's first suit is to play after finding a fit in other major and keycarding on it, or play it something else of your choice.

I think 6♥ as to play is particularly useful after getting a negative queen reply to keycard.

[HighLow21]

mikeh, on 2014-January-15, 01:08, said:

6N seems pretty clear to me at mps. At imps, I'd chose 6♥. I wouldn't choose spades at any scoring: it could very easily be the only failing slam of the 3 plausible candidates. Picture bad spades and a bad break. While neither 6N nor 6♥ are bullet-proof, I'd expect both to be superior. I choose hearts at imps primarily, but not only, to protect partner's possibly vulnerable diamond holding.

I'm struggling to figure out how:
(1) Partner can fail to have good enough spades for 6♠ to have 2 losers even in spite of the Q♠ missing. He did jump the bidding and we do hold 18 excellent HCP.
(2) 6 of anything can make if there are indeed two spade losers.

I suppose it's possible if diamonds and hearts have no top losers and we can make 4 club tricks, but that sees unlikely. We would need something like:

♠KJ7x ♥KJxxx ♦AK ♣QJ

AND

spades offside, 4-1, with the singleton not the T or Q.

That's a pretty specific scenario to play for. We're talking 8% on the spades alone.

I cannot think of any other holding with partner, combined with a defensive holding scenario, in which 6♥ makes but 6♠ doesn't. Help me out.

[manudude03]

Give partner Kxxx KJ9xx AKx Q and 7H makes while even 6S could be down on a 4-1 break. Still, I like 6H as long as it is not asking partner to choose the slam. 6NT at MPs

[mikeh]

HighLow21, on 2014-January-19, 20:25, said:

I'm struggling to figure out how:
(1) Partner can fail to have good enough spades for 6♠ to have 2 losers even in spite of the Q♠ missing. He did jump the bidding and we do hold 18 excellent HCP.
(2) 6 of anything can make if there are indeed two spade losers.

I suppose it's possible if diamonds and hearts have no top losers and we can make 4 club tricks, but that sees unlikely. We would need something like:

♠KJ7x ♥KJxxx ♦AK ♣QJ

AND

spades offside, 4-1, with the singleton not the T or Q.

That's a pretty specific scenario to play for. We're talking 8% on the spades alone.

I cannot think of any other holding with partner, combined with a defensive holding scenario, in which 6♥ makes but 6♠ doesn't. Help me out.

So long as there are more layouts, however improbable, where spades fail while hearts succeed, rather than vice versa, it is flat out very bad bridge to choose spades rather than hearts, if hearts is available.

[ggwhiz]

The thought that 6♥ is available as a final contract boggles my mind. C'mon, fuggetaboutit

6nt feels like the odds on gamble but I would not be shocked if it's wrong opposite an aggressive partner that upgraded their hand due to shape ie. (shudder) a club void.

[HighLow21]

mikeh, on 2014-January-19, 21:08, said:

So long as there are more layouts, however improbable, where spades fail while hearts succeed, rather than vice versa, it is flat out very bad bridge to choose spades rather than hearts, if hearts is available.

My point is that I don't see how 6♥ is more probable -- my gut tells me 6♠ is. I could be wrong about this.