[plum_tree]

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How do you find the ♦ slam?

[1eyedjack]

I don't think so. If East were to treat his had as GF with long Diamonds and Club short, then yes (whether or not showing 4 Hearts), in that case West should have a bit of imagination. But I don't see East bidding that strong. Maybe he should.

[Cyberyeti]

Very difficult for strong NTers, fortunately my style of weak NT opens 1♦ so we have a chance.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Playing 4-suit transfers :
1NT - 2NT! ( long ♦, weak or strong )
3C! ( gap bid showing good ♦ support )
...... but I'm not sure this is enough for Responder to push to slam . ( 3D would be sign-off; any other would be forward going ) .

[uhhlv]

If you put 1 club to the hearts, you only make 11 tricks.

I ve no bidding methods to distinguish a 4243 distribution from a 4342 distribution during the bidding.

West has the perfect distribution and also perfect values. Otherwise even 5 diamond needn t be safe.

It is impossible to find every 23p slam.

[ggwhiz]

I agree with all of the above.

It may be easier for east to overbid slightly to a game force through stayman or a transfer to diamonds at imps but could cost a lot at mp's and it is a perfect fit.

[mycroft]

I have a toy (which, granted, I probably wouldn't play playing strong NT), that allows me to show "4 hearts, longer diamonds, GF" with an (eventual) 3♥ bid. Would I make it? Possibly. Would that get us there? Again, possibly. I'd be happier at IMPs where I can pull 3NT (because I don't want them running 6 club tricks at me before I take my 11 - yes, I know it won't happen in this case, and in many cases, but is this really a GF when the game is 3NT?)

But if I miss all my 22-24 point minor slams at matchpoints, I'm probably losing less in a year than I do mis-signalling in a week.

[plum_tree]

I was taught SAYC. Here is an extract from the SAYC booklet –
Other responses to 1NT:
1NT — 3♣, 3♦ = a six-card or longer suit and invitational to 3NT.

So how about this auction?
1NT-3♦
3NT (accepting the invitation)
4♣ (cue-bid, 1st or 2nd round ♣ control)
West does not know about the ♣ void but should at least make a mild slam try, intending to signoff at 5♦ if necessary. SAYC uses Blackwood, so the auction continues –
4NT
East with the ♦AK plus a ♣ void can blast 6♦?

[kenrexford]

mycroft, on 2014-January-08, 10:04, said:

I have a toy (which, granted, I probably wouldn't play playing strong NT), that allows me to show "4 hearts, longer diamonds, GF" with an (eventual) 3♥ bid. Would I make it? Possibly. Would that get us there? Again, possibly. I'd be happier at IMPs where I can pull 3NT (because I don't want them running 6 club tricks at me before I take my 11 - yes, I know it won't happen in this case, and in many cases, but is this really a GF when the game is 3NT?)

But if I miss all my 22-24 point minor slams at matchpoints, I'm probably losing less in a year than I do mis-signalling in a week.

Let me guess...

I also like a neat tool here that I call "Minor Suit Smolen." After 1NT-2♣-2M as the start, Responder bids the other minor if he has length in that minor with the other major. 3♣ would therefore show diamonds:

1NT-2♣

2♠-3♣!

Opener would then bid 3♦ with this hand, whatever meaning that has. After this, Responder can show shortness, bidding three of Opener's major with shortness there or three of his inferred major with shortness in clubs. Thus:

1NT-2♣

2♠-3♣

3♦-3♥ = 4♥/5+♦, short club, GF

After that start, Opener can count on at least a 5-4 diamond fit. Opener is known to have four honor-based cover cards. He also has his heart doubleton in the right place. Having denied five spades already (did not bid 3♠ after 3♣), he could bid 3♠ now as at least a weak slam try, agreeing diamonds.

1NT-2♣(stayman)

2♠-3♣(diamonds)

3♦-3♥(stiff club)

3♠(agrees diamonds, mild+ slam try)

That start is as good as you can get. East has to evaluate this, then. Not sure what I would do at the table.

[humilities]

Don't they call 1NT/2NT openings the "slam-killers"? Seems appropriate...

[rmnka447]

The hand makes 6 because of a perfect fit. After a strong NT, it's probably pretty difficult ascertain that all the necessary cards exist to make slam.

I would expect a pretty normal auction to be:

1 NT 2 ♣
2 ♠ 3 ♦
3 NT

At this point, even with a ♣ void, responder can't know whether a ♦ contract is preferable to NT. With the hand shown here, it is. But opener could equally hold a hand with a small doubleton diamond where 3 NT is a rock and 5 ♦ goes down.

Missing a 23 HCP point slam based on a perfect fit isn't something I'd worry about too much.

[Endymion77]

These hands are tough to bid. Even if you play Extended Stayman and can find West's exact distribution, you still won't know that West also has 7 controls, and East's hand is not quite good enough to drive to slam. Here's a suggested Extended Stayman sequence however I wouldn't bid like this if I'm East:

1NT - 2♣ (1)
2♠ (2) - 3♣ (3)
3♦ (4) - 3♥ (5)
3NT (6) - 4♣ (7)
4♦ (8) - 5♣ (9)
5♠ (10) - 6♦ (11)

(1) Extended Stayman, showing invitational values at least
(2) 4 spades without 4 hearts
(3) distribution please (2NT is balanced invitational without 4 spades)
(4) 4 diamonds
(5) relay
(6) 4243
(7) transfer to diamonds
(8) forced
(9) This is where East must take a really optimistic view and show the void to get to the slam. Most sane Easts would not transfer to diamonds but just bid 5♦ to play after finding out the dsitribution. There's also the option to transfer and then bid 5♦ to show a mild slam interest which would also work on this hand but it shows a more balanced hand so it's not suitable here.
(10) Accepting the invitation, showing 2 keycards without ♦Q outside of clubs.
(11) Not looking for a grand, partner

[1eyedjack]

Endymion77, on 2014-January-08, 14:55, said:

These hands are tough to bid. Even if you play Extended Stayman ...

Especially if you play Extended Stayman. You are better placed on hands like these if responder describes and opener captains.

[kenrexford]

I thought about this more, assuming my auction start. If Opener shows at least mild slam interest by bidding 3♠, Responder could suggest a signoff in 3NT. If he opts the low road, Opener will know that 3NT only makes if the diamond suit comes in. If the diamond suit comes in, however, and there are nine cashers, then by definition there must be 11 tricks in 5♦. Any additional trick in 3NT would also be an additional trick in 5♦. Thus, if Opener knows that partner has long diamonds with a short club, there is no reason for the partnership to ever stop in 3NT.

If Responder makes the mild 3NT call, Opener therefore should probably bid something even more encouraging, like 4♣ to show the club Ace. Responder then will expect at least four sure covers for the repeated slam moves, with no wasted values in clubs beyond that Ace (which would be useful in pitching a slow spade loser). Hence, Responder only needs that heart doubleton to make 6♦, probably. If Responder reciprocates by bidding 5♣ (void, with interest despite the club Ace), Opener just about has the picture perfectly -- four hearts, not four spades, with a void in clubs, no cuebids available in either major, but slam interest? That sure sounds like this hand.

So, I think this slam could be reached with only the slight tweak of "minor suit smolen" and the suggested follow-ups.

[P_Marlowe]

Did you reach game, as you played the hand?
I can see the bidding end in a part score.

If you reached game in a controlled manner, fine,
if not lets talk about reaching game, before we talk
about reaching slams.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cascade]

1eyedjack, on 2014-January-08, 07:24, said:

I don't think so. If East were to treat his had as GF with long Diamonds and Club short, then yes (whether or not showing 4 Hearts), in that case West should have a bit of imagination. But I don't see East bidding that strong. Maybe he should.

I think east is an auto game force over a strong no trump - 3NT, 4♠, 4♥ and 5♦ are all potential playable games and a good system will have methods to determine which one to play.

I have a method to show long diamonds and short clubs (and still find a 4=4 heart fit and possibly a 5=3 spade fit) so I would use that. Thereafter opener will love his hand and almost certainly drive to slam.

[Cascade]

uhhlv, on 2014-January-08, 08:49, said:

If you put 1 club to the hearts, you only make 11 tricks.

I ve no bidding methods to distinguish a 4243 distribution from a 4342 distribution during the bidding.

West has the perfect distribution and also perfect values. Otherwise even 5 diamond needn t be safe.

It is impossible to find every 23p slam.

If partner shows short clubs then 4243 is clearly better than 4342 as you have a ruffing value. That is not a system it is judgement. Of course you need the method to show the short club.