[chasetb]

Assume IMPs, though if your answer would change if it were MPs, please explain why.

2/1 GF, 1♠ only promises 4+ .

---

[the hog]

Pass. The hand looks misfitting and pd has not made a great show of strength.

[fromageGB]

If partner had available a bid to show strength, such as 2♣ with almost any 15+hcp, then pass.
If partner's 2♥ could be a 17 count, then 2NT. Such imprecise methods need flexibility.

[P_Marlowe]

Playing MP, pass is a valid option.

At IMPs I would say, that I have to make another try. Pass gets more attractive,
if you open regular open light.

what to bid: I guess I have to go either with 2NT or with 3D, I would go with
2NT, but ...

With kind regards
Marlowe

[billw55]

I would bid 3♦. Partner's failure to rebid 2♣ almost guarantees two cards in a pointed suit, and often three. What's the worst that can happen? Partner is 1714, bids 3♥ and plays it there? Not the end of the world nonvul.

edit: I think I just realized the problem with this. lol

fromageGB, on 2014-January-14, 06:17, said:

If partner's 2♥ could be a 17 count ...

This sounds weird to me, do people really play this way?

[fromageGB]

billw55, on 2014-January-14, 08:33, said:

This sounds weird to me, do people really play this way?

I thought this was a pretty standard top end value for those not playing a Gazzilli type artificial rebid. How strong do you need to be to jump to 3♥? Any weaker than 17/18 and it makes contracts very flaky opposite a minimum non-fitting partner - like this one without the Ace of clubs.

[Cyberyeti]

Is your style with 6-4 to rebid 2♥ or 2m ?

Qx, QJ109xx, KJ, KJ10 for example is no great hand but will make 3N, a bigger danger is something like Ax, QJ9xxx, AJxx, x if you rebid 2♥ with this where if all goes well you could conceivably make 13 tricks in diamonds rather than 9 in hearts and 5♦ is probably where you want to be.

3♦ is a serious overbid, I'd bid 2N.

[bigbenvic]

If I continue on it has to be 3d as 2nt might get partner to jump to 4♥ expecting some trumps in my hand. Partner could have a 3622 and 4 is a good show. Or it could all go pear shaped!

Imps I will give it a go for the game bonus is worth a little stretch and at pairs scoring I think I will pass as the risk/reward isn't that great.

[MickyB]

Pass, I expect this to be unanimous.

[chasetb]

We don't play Gazzilli or Bart, so 1♥ could be up to a 16 (rarely a 17 count). I admit this isn't the best, but I was playing what partner knew.

All 12+ HCP hands are opened, otherwise rule of 20.

With 6♥-4m, it depends. Generally with extra strength or a good side-suit, we rebid the minor. If the side suit is garbage (Jxxx or worse) and the Heart suit is really good, then 2♥.

With 3♠-6♥, partner usually rebids Hearts, but can support Spades with shortness and/or nice Spades and bad Hearts. With 3-6-(0-4) I would hope partner doesn't rebid Hearts, but we don't play that often together.

[MrAce]

billw55, on 2014-January-14, 08:33, said:

This sounds weird to me, do people really play this way?

Yes, especially if they are too strict with the suit quality and/or spots they jump with. You can check the past topics and you will see we have a lot of people who are strict on this and there are others who can jump with AQxxxx,setting the priority to the invitation limit instead of suit quality.

bigbenvic, on 2014-January-14, 09:34, said:

If I continue on it has to be 3d as 2nt might get partner to jump to 4♥ expecting some trumps in my hand.

I don't think 2 NT promise any hearts at all. There are a lot of hands with 0-1 hearts and 11-12 hcps, which can not make GF, and where pass could be underbid. And with doubleton hearts, responder could have raised hearts himself after pd promised 6 of them.

But the hand we hold now is much closer to pass than 2 NT. I would pass.

[HighLow21]

I'm bidding 3♦. Game is still not out of the question and unless partner has a semi-solid heart suit, there is very likely a better spot than this. It could be 5♦, 4♠, 3NT or a part-score in any of 4 different strains (excluding clubs).

If he comes back 3♥, I'm finished... and not sure what I'd do if it goes 3♥ doubled back to me. I would probably stick it.

[Cyberyeti]

HighLow21, on 2014-January-14, 22:39, said:

I'm bidding 3♦. Game is still not out of the question and unless partner has a semi-solid heart suit, there is very likely a better spot than this. It could be 5♦, 4♠, 3NT or a part-score in any of 4 different strains (excluding clubs).

If he comes back 3♥, I'm finished... and not sure what I'd do if it goes 3♥ doubled back to me. I would probably stick it.

Isn't 3♦ GF so 3♥ doesn't have to be minimum ?

[Lord Molyb]

2NT

[chasetb]

I was playing with Wbridge5 at the time. The auction it wanted had West barging in with 2♣ after 1♠, then a support X and a jump to game by South. After forcing West to pass again, here's the auction and the hands:

---

To be honest, I would probably pass at the table. It's interesting that both 4♠ and 4♥ makes. I know someone posted awhile back about opening 4♥ on these kinds of hands, and it pays off in spades here (horrible pun intended). Looking through the posts on here, I came up with an idea, probably a bad one but maybe worth exploring. For this, I am assuming the partnership isn't willing to change 1♥-1♠ to 5+ .

If the hand in question was able to show at least 5♠-4♦ and INV+ values, then this thin game might be reached. I am thinking that 3♣ by responder would definitely do the trick. Since this hurts the GF Spades-Clubs hands, then I also suggest putting 5-5 black hands into 2♣, but only making it forcing for 1 round. So, you get the auction 1♥-2♣ ; 2♥ - 2♠ as INV+ , but initially only promising 4 Spades. Partner would show 3-card support via 2NT, and it still is reached.

[rhm]

chasetb, on 2014-January-16, 03:48, said:

---

It's interesting that both 4♠ and 4♥ makes. I know someone posted awhile back about opening 4♥ on these kinds of hands, and it pays off in spades here (horrible pun intended).

So the only options with the North hand are

1) open 4♥

2) rebid 2♥(!) when partner responds 1♠?

What is wrong with rebidding 4♥ when partner responds 1♠?
I frankly admit my game bids are not underwritten by Lloyds.
If I am recovering from a long depression I might rebid only 3♥ to give partner a chance to pass with a misfit and minimum values.

Rainer Herrmann

[Zelandakh]

chasetb, on 2014-January-16, 03:48, said:

If the hand in question was able to show at least 5♠-4♦ and INV+ values, then this thin game might be reached.

Why are the diamonds necessary? I can show an invite with 5+ spades via 1♥ - 1♠(relay); 1NT(min) - 2♠, after which it is easy. As with Rainer, I far prefer 1♥ - 1♠; 4♥ than a direct 4♥ opening. Many also use gadgets to be able to show a 1-suiter with 3 card support, which would also be the route in my system if a card is transferred from South to North (1♥ - 1NT(♠, NF); 2NT(3♠, INV) - 4♠).

[Cyberyeti]

We play a style where a 3♥ rebid shows 6.5-7 playing tricks so this would be a 3♥ rebid for us (we play a weak no trump and use 2N as a GF unbalanced rebid for really big hands). We would reach game, probably 4♥.

[HighLow21]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-January-15, 05:37, said:

Isn't 3♦ GF so 3♥ doesn't have to be minimum ?

Depends on your system. Not in mine. I would play it was 10+ HCP with at best a spot-doubleton in hearts, and usually 5-5 in spades in diamonds. It's screaming to play something other than hearts.