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Insufficient bid, penalty double and... ... Someone runs

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2014-February-06, 20:33



West had bid 3♥ tried to change it to 4, the director was called he allowed the change to 4♥ without penalty.

5♦ was made, so South called the Director again and said that East action was influenced by West's insufficient bid. How would you rule?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

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#2 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2014-February-06, 20:35

Can I see the hands or is that unauthorized information?
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-February-06, 20:49

If my partner had bid 3D earlier, constructive but not forcing, I would already know she only had 2 hearts at most...then exactly two hearts would be later confirmed by 4H with or without the 3H IB.

The only possible UI from the withdrawn 3H would be hand strength, not strain concerns.
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#4 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 02:23

View PostHanoi5, on 2014-February-06, 20:33, said:

West had bid 3♥ tried to change it to 4, the director was called he allowed the change to 4♥ without penalty.


Did the TD allow the change under Law 25A, ruling that 3♥ was unintended; or did the TD rule that a change to 4♥ was permitted and would not silence partner, under Law 27B1(a).
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#5 User is offline   campboy 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 03:21

Assuming the call was allowed to be changed under 27B1a, the withdrawn call is not UI (that law specifies that 16D does not apply). However we could still adjust the score if we think the OS would likely have gotten a worse score without the insufficient bid (27D).
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#6 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 04:15

Is it at all clear that the information from 3♥ could suggest bidding 5♦, under whichever law (Law 16B or Law 27D)?
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#7 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 07:20

I know that this is peripheral to the main issue, but did the director allow the change of bid without giving N the chance to accept the IB?
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#8 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 09:21

I'm sorry for the mistakes made. South had doubled 3♠ asking for a lead. The Director gave all the options to North who decided not to accept 3♥ and also explained correctly that if the bid was changed to anything other than 4♥ East would have to pass for the rest of the bid.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 09:37

View PostHanoi5, on 2014-February-07, 09:21, said:

I'm sorry for the mistakes made. South had doubled 3♠ asking for a lead. The Director gave all the options to North who decided not to accept 3♥ and also explained correctly that if the bid was changed to anything other than 4♥ East would have to pass for the rest of the bid.

The OP omissions now expressed don't seem to change anything. I can't see any use of UI pertaining to strain (or any UI existing relative to strain).
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#10 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 12:10

Since the attempt to bid 3♥ instead of 4 would most naturally address the strength and not the shape, move on there is nothing to see here.

Could it be that the double of 4♥ is a self inflicted debacle (as in doubling the only thing you can beat)? I've seen it often enough to have zero sympathy.
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#11 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2014-February-07, 12:40

View Postggwhiz, on 2014-February-07, 12:10, said:

Since the attempt to bid 3♥ instead of 4 would most naturally address the strength and not the shape, move on there is nothing to see here.


Devil advocate: 3♥ shows more doubt about strain that 4♥ because there is room for partner to bid 4♦ over 3♥ which could be raised to 5♦.
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