BBO Discussion Forums: Law 63A3 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Law 63A3 Revoke Established after Claim

#1 User is offline   DuaneC 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: 2011-October-20

Posted 2014-February-21, 09:44

Contract 5D W. West to play and NS already have taken 2 tricks


ACBL Club Game. Diamonds are trump and West (Declarer) plays the D10. North plays a spade, dummy plays a spade, and South
revokes by playing a spade. West then declares the rest with good trumps and 4 Clubs. North naturally concedes and lays
down his hand face up, but South naturally contests the claim pointing out she has a trump.

When one defender concedes, and the other contests a claim, how is Law 63A3 applied? Is it if one defender concedes, the
revoke is established regardless of what the other defender does? Is it decided by who is first to speak, or who would be
first to play?

Also, suppose only South spoke to contest the claim. To avoid establishing the revoke, does South have to say that in addition
to contesting the claim, she needs to correct the revoke to previous trick? If South only contests the claim, can North avoid
establishing the revoke by saying that South has to correct her play to previous trick? If Declarer or Dummy mentions the
revoke before Director has adjudicated the claim, does that establish the revoke, or allow the defense to correct? I assume
that if Declarer or Dummy waits until after the claim is adjudicated, then the revoke is established, and they can ask Director
to apply the penalty for revoke.
0

#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2014-February-21, 09:57

IMO, this should be a quick and practical "down one, no harm, no foul" situation. I further believe that the usual suspects will try to make it more complicated.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,686
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2014-February-21, 10:51

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-February-21, 09:57, said:

IMO, this should be a quick and practical "down one, no harm, no foul" situation. I further believe that the usual suspects will try to make it more complicated.

When you make a ruling, Aqua, you can't, in spite of the tendency of many, many ACBL (and other?) TDs to do so, just wave your hands and say "this is how it is". You have to be able to cite the particular laws and regulations under which the ruling is made. That is particularly true here, where we are trying to teach people to understand the rules. So....

Law 63A3 is indeed the correct starting place. It says that a revoke becomes established "when a member of the offending side makes or agrees to a claim or concession of tricks orally or by facing his hand or in any other way". West claimed (see Law 68A). North accepted the claim. So the revoke is established. Now we look at the claim. Absent the J, declarer has eight tricks: four clubs and four trumps. However, the J is the top outstanding trump, so South would get that trick, and West would be down one. However, there was an established revoke. Law 64A2 applies, and one trick should be transferred to the offending side. Now West makes his contract.

Is this "more complicated" than Aqua's hand waving? I suppose so — but it has one other aspect as well; it is the correct ruling. South has "lost" a trick he could not, absent the revoke, possibly have lost. Tough. One function of the revoke laws is to punish revokes, in the hope that such punishment will deter future revokes. We can debate how well that works, or whether it should be in the laws at all (in the "Changing Laws" forum, please) but that makes no difference to the ruling under the current laws.

If North says or does nothing to accept the claim, and South contests it, the revoke is not established, because the condition in Law 63A3 is not met. Ignoring for the moment that there has been a claim and that therefore "play ceases" (Law 68D), If South has become aware of his revoke, he must correct it (Law 62A). Now he's on lead, and he has a major penalty card (the spade he originally played to this trick). So he leads the spade, and West get the remaining tricks, for down one. If South claims to be unaware he revoked, I would rule the same way, but I would give South a PP for failure to pay sufficient attention to the game (Law 90, Law 74B1). I would do this because, frankly, I don't believe him unless he isn't paying attention*. Ah, but there's a claim outstanding, and play has ceased. No matter. In adjudicating a claim, the TD considers how the play might have gone (Law 70), and that's all we're doing here.

Once the claim is made, play ceases, and the revoke cannot be corrected - in fact, nothing can be done - until the TD arrives (Law 68D), and then everything that is done is done by the TD's instruction.

*IMO this is the right ruling, but if I'm convinced he's simply trying to gain advantage somehow from not correcting his revoke, I would not give him a PP for paying insufficient attention. I would give him a PP (more than the "standard", which is 25% in the ACBL) for violation of Law 62A, failure to do what he must do — correct his revoke. But this would be pretty rare.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
3

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users