[Lovera]

The RKCB was maked to avoid to declare slams without A and/or King in trump suit. The conventional developing is how in Blackwood with more the information in trump suit. Then when information about keycards is reached (4NT ?) is not necessary (also don't complicate fourthemore) to continue in position of Queen or King like Asking bid (by E. Culbertson ) but more simply enough quantitative reponses.

[Lovera]

I have read the long post of Mbodell about RKCB and must say that seem to me to find same rule of Asking Bid when there is ask for Queen (and relative positive/negative answere) and cue bids for King. It easy for me apply because i know this strong convention - properly a system for controlls - having used this years ago when i played with my partners. Nowadays is not much used probably because its many answers (about 15) to make difficult to memorize (but i have found a way to simply..) and competition with cue bids (more easy instead) could have countributed. Pay attention don't have same pattern and also to have a clear and defined exposition of RKCB because complexity and difference doesn't help, bye.

[1eyedjack]

guido, on 2014-June-10, 09:35, said:

The most common problems with RKC is knowing:
a) is the call vanilla Blackwood or RKC?
b) what's trump?
c) knowing if the partnership is playing the first step as 0-3 OR 1-4

And one of the less common problems, but problem nonetheless, is what responder is supposed to do holding a void.

Mbodell in a later post attempted to address this. However, simply defining a bid to show a void does not entirely eliminate the problem.

Take, for example, the 5N response to 4N showing an even number of key cards and a "useful void".
Whether the void is "useful" may be a function of whether Blackwooder himself has the Ace, an item of information that is not known, although depending on the preceding auction it may be a reasonable guess.

Then there is the 6m response to 4N showing a void in the bid minor and an odd number of key cards. If that odd number of key cards is just the King of trumps, say, and Blackwooder has the Ace of the minor in which responder is showing a void, then the 6 level may be (indeed is likely to be) too high. GIB has done this to me on a number of occasions.

[Lovera]

This type of problem ( a void in the hand of partner) when 4NT arises could be resolveble reserving 6 level only when your partnership has 3 keycards and a void (this one is already ruled) bidding the other cases in a different way. Althoug because we are talking about let me thinking we are trying to estabilish a variant to official convention (or to insert anything), bye.

[Lovera]

I think that this argoument must be discuss more deeply RKCB1430 being substitute(=up-to-date) of classical Blackwood and comprending, fourthemore, possibility to signal void. For this aim i have found in my books an hand played from so called by Pierre Jais "coming-man" n.1 of french bridge (at that time).....North ♠ - ♥ 10 2 ♦ A K Q 6 4 3 ♣ K Q 9 8 5 South ♠ Q 9 8 7 4 ♥ A K Q J 9 6 3 ♦ - ♣ 3 The real bidding was :S 1♥ W 1♠ N 2♦ E 3♣ S 3♥ W p N 5 ♥ E p S 6♥. Now let's suppose that N instead 5♥ bids 4♥ and S will continue with 4NT ... what to get 6♥ ? (Opening leads spade A,ruff 2, diamond 2, spade 4.). I don't want you try to resolve the play but you consider subsequent bidding of 4NT, bye.

[1eyedjack]

Lovera, on 2014-November-10, 12:29, said:

This type of problem ( a void in the hand of partner) when 4NT arises could be resolveble reserving 6 level only when your partnership has 3 keycards and a void

That would "resolve" the problem of getting too high. But then it would create the problem of missing slam when 1 key card and a useful void is sufficient. On grounds of frequency your way may be better, but to say that it "resolves" the problem without acknowledging any downside is an overbid.

[Lovera]

1eyedjack, on 2014-November-15, 02:21, said:

That would "resolve" the problem of getting too high. But then it would create the problem of missing slam when 1 key card and a useful void is sufficient. On grounds of frequency your way may be better, but to say that it "resolves" the problem without acknowledging any downside is an overbid.

I only have starting to say: for instance when you have 2 keycards and a void bid 5 NT and we can rule (as i have said) differently also 1 keycard and a void separately from 3 keycards and a void (but in this way we take a difference from convention).

[1eyedjack]

Lovera, on 2014-November-15, 04:59, said:

I only have starting to say: for instance when you have 2 keycards and a void bid 5 NT and we can rule (as i have said) differently also 1 keycard and a void separately from 3 keycards and a void (but in this way we take a difference from convention).

Sorry, it loses in translation, but how do you propose to show 1 key card and a void? And how do you ensure that partner can tell whether the void is opposite an Ace? (2nd question equally applies with 2 key cards and 5N response)

[Lovera]

1eyedjack, on 2014-November-15, 11:15, said:

Sorry, it loses in translation, but how do you propose to show 1 key card and a void? And how do you ensure that partner can tell whether the void is opposite an Ace? (2nd question equally applies with 2 key cards and 5N response)

Thanks for dialogue, i' ll answer (before explaing my idea about how we shall show a void with a keycard) to a "usefull" void: my thinking is that this one must be always show and RKCB bidder (we must use 1340 for it gaining space almost actually) valutes(=know) if void is helping..

[ggwhiz]

tergra51, on 2014-June-10, 08:10, said:

I am looking for a very simple article or book

I sure hope you stopped reading after the first 3 responses!

They covered it well.

[Lovera]

Let's consider the case of 1A with a void(=v) and deviding if a) we have the Queen, b) we have not the Queen in trump suit. In this circumstance in both cases you initially signal Ace : let's suppose heart is trump suit and over 4NT we than bid 5 ♣, if partner ask for Q with 5♦ we answer as usually and to comunicate a void bid 5NT making a delayed information. In case b) considering that void is however a control of first round like an Ace and we insert this one in 5♥ meaning 2A or 1A + void without Q (there is an example in my post n. 25). For logical extension and also compatibility with this convention (there is another way to indicate if there is or not the Queen in trump suit with subsequent ask in two step but is another Blackwood variation) you insert a void and 0 Ace in 5♦ (with RKCB 1430 but in case trump suit is a minor and expecially club is suggest RKCB0314) answering in the same way over (eventual) 5♠ (skipping 5♥ that means sign off).Than we have that: with 3 keycards(=k) + v directly 6, 2 k + v directly 5NT, 1 k + v (over 5♣) delayed NT, 0 k + v (over 5♦) delayed NT. I hope this variation of RKCB convention be usefull almost to contein case you get out of level with your contract, bye.

[1eyedjack]

OK you have done your best. Good effort, but defeated by the language barrier. Perhaps if you had stuck to a table format rather than paragraph prose you might have had a chance.

But then again, perhaps not. The fact is that there is no solution that copes with responder having a void.

[Lovera]

1eyedjack, on 2014-November-16, 11:44, said:

OK you have done your best. Good effort, but defeated by the language barrier. Perhaps if you had stuck to a table format rather than paragraph prose you might have had a chance.

But then again, perhaps not. The fact is that there is no solution that copes with responder having a void.

To make a tabel is not a problem but it seem to me also reading my precedent post that all cases are described : only at 6 level we have position of void (i.e. 6 ♦ meaning is three keycards and void in diamond, starting 5NT as in convention (2 keycards plus a void) until NT with differred(=delayed) bidding on answer that ask for queen the position of void is indeterminate such as 4NT ? if partner bids 5♣ = 1 keycards, 5♦ = ? for queen and if partner bids 5NT = 1keycards plus a void and queen of heart(=trump), This NT is the delayed or differred bidding (on subsequent round). When you not have the queen for don't miss the information of void we bid 5♥that now meaning 2 keycards without the queen or 1 keycards plus a void without the queen. The same for indication of a void without ace starting with 5♦ = 0 keycards with or without queen but i can have a void : in this case bidding usually ending i trump on leve but in (rare) case go on always the indication of void is on the answer of 5NT = a void plus queen, bye.

[1eyedjack]

So, if Blackwooder makes a secondary ask, you can show a void by committing to 6.

That may certainly be valuable information if 7 is in the frame.

It is of no use whatsoever if the void is what makes 6 viable. Which it might be. Or might not.

[Lovera]

1eyedjack, on 2014-November-16, 13:11, said:

So, if Blackwooder makes a secondary ask, you can show a void by committing to 6.

That may certainly be valuable information if 7 is in the frame.

It is of no use whatsoever if the void is what makes 6 viable. Which it might be. Or might not.

It serves to give this information of void when keycards are minus of three not togheter as in convention at 6 level but on lower(=safety) level (5). After the partner bidding the RKCB decide in base of his/her cards if is the case to continue for grand (having more space is prossible perhaps to declare yet sure that all condition for this be available). Infact RKCB investigate for controlls in a way more deeply respect the past but heavy of shape is sometimes determinant to have a better result.. I remember (i have forgot whom) that a member of Blue Team said "I prefer bid a little slam and to make an ultherior trick that bid a grand and to lose a trick (because a squeeze don't work).

[Lovera]

For continuing n.r ..keycard(s) with a void here is an hand from another book of G. Barbone (Bridge Allegro pag. 238) : North ♠ - ♥ J 10 4 ♦ 8 7 6 4 3 2 ♣ 7 6 4 2 , South ♠ K J 3 ♥ A K 8 7 6 5 2 ♦ - ♣ A K Q. South (with an unsaid bidding) final contract is 6 ♥ (not vul vs vul): West has ♠ Q 10 8 7 ♥ Q 9 3 ♦ Q J 9 5 ♣ J 3 (..factible but against killing leads of Queen of heart), bye.

[Lovera]

Then to riassume: when are 3 keycards and a void partner indicates void and you know location of it, with minus of 3 you know there a void is but you don't know where is but you simply may ask cue bidding.. At this aim i have (little) changed a (i think known) hand where is a grand in heart: West has ♠ J 7 5 3 2 ♥ A K 10 6 ♦ A K ♣ A 5 and East has ♠ - ♥ Q J 9 5 2 ♦ 7 4 ♣ K J 8 6 4 3 trump suit is heart RKCB1430 bidding goes 4NT ? 5♦=0keycards 5♠(=query for Queen) and subsequent 5NT reveal a void plus Queen now ( at this level you authorized partner to bid 7 ) if you bids 6 ♥ this meaning if partner has a (useful) void in spade bids 7 ♥ infact you may ask cue bidding where void is in this way (such as if you are intersted in club bids 6 ♣ meaning=have a void in club? If yes partner bids 7 if not bids 6 of trump.

[Lovera]

A precisation on my post n. 37: obvoiusly when you ask for Queen you bid 5♠ and not 5♥(=sign-off) and, also, this answere is reserved to indicate Queen+King of spade but the apparent ambiguity there is not when your partner bids 6 of trump because denying void indirectly sure to have King of spade with Queen of trump(=heart).

[Lovera]

On the same line of a void.. this hand : South ♠ A K Q 9 6 3 ♥ x x x ♦ A 9 8 6 ♣ - North ♠ 10 8 7 5 4 2 ♥ - ♦ K x ♣ 10 9 8 7 5 (from "Contract Bridge Complete" by Ely Culbertson). With crossed-ruffing plain of play there are 7♠ ( but to get it are used the New Asking Bids to know situation in hearts, diamonds and trump). Here, exchanging Queen with 10 in spade, it allows to reveal information of void (5NT) and to have indirectly its position: 6♣ ?=have a void in clubs ? (not probable) 6♦=cue bid for King in diamonds (not having void) as in RKCB and than void in hearts for 7♠ (but we don't know that in diamonds North has a doubleton!).

[Lovera]

I suggest to insert (for shape information) singleton too answering to 5NT so meaning =we have all keys what about controlls of second round ? In this case with a singleton in clubs answering is 6♣ or too i have club King . For logical extension by-passing 5NT (i.e. 6♦=?) should be to ask for Queen: i.e. having heart trump agree 6♥=i have not Queen in diamond and other case are positive reponse (Queen in diamond and a King a side or 6 NT=yes Queen alone) it being shape information important on investigatin about slam bidding.