[gwnn]

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two-part question:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant?

[nige1]

gwnn, on 2014-October-18, 09:00, said:

two-part question:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant?

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IMO

• 2N = 10, 2♦ = 9, Double = 8. 2♥ = 7, 3N = 6 1N = 5. (3N is playable opposite a bal Yarborough xxxx xxx xxx xxx).
• Double = 10, 2N = 9, 2♥ (forcing) = 8, 3N = 7, 2♦ = 6. 1N = 5. (Strong protective doubles are often "off-shape").

Edited to award marks to 1N

This post has been edited by nige1: 2014-October-20, 08:46

[whereagles]

In my pet version of polish club, I bid 2♥ on this. Shows something like a strong 2 in hearts.

Ok the suit should be better, but this will have to do.

[Free]

2♥ showing the strong ♥ version. The other alternative is 1NT but I don't like that. All other bids are from coocoo-land!

[antonylee]

2H, what else?

[the hog]

2♥. Agree with Frederick that everything else is silly.

[johnu]

gwnn, on 2014-October-18, 09:00, said:

-what would you do if you have no special agreements?

Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.

[gwnn]

johnu, on 2014-October-19, 00:48, said:

Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.

Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard.

[whereagles]

johnu, on 2014-October-19, 00:48, said:

Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.

"Standard" agreements here means, I suppose, "common sense" or "undiscussed bids are natural". In which case 2♥ fits the purpose as well.

[the hog]

gwnn, on 2014-October-19, 01:18, said:

Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard.

2D would be natural, strong. This is to stop psyches where they end up playing in your suit undoubled.

[gwnn]

2♦ as natural, interesting, thanks!

I did indeed bid 2♥ but we missed a game that everyone else bid, when partner held:

xxx
Qx
xxxx
Kxxx

(LHO held all the relevant points and only 4 diamonds).

Was partner worth a 3♥ bid? Matchpoints (I think I forgot to mention this before!!)

[gnasher]

Everything should be the same as after 1♣-p-1♦-p, so presumably 2♦ is an artificial game-force and 2♥ is strong but non-forcing. If you do bid 2♥ I think partner has a clear 3♥ bid. ♥Q and ♣K are quite likely to be worth two tricks and two entries.

[gwnn]

We said
1♣-1♦
2♥ shows an Acol two with 8-8.5 tricks and a decent suit. I have no idea how many tricks this is, but presumably right around there (counting the hearts as 4?? and adding a bit for the two jacks and our pessimism in the heart suit) - but of course it would typically be based on better hearts and less high cards. I guess it does make sense to treat it as just 1C-1D; ?? but Mr Hog also has a point. Thanks everyone for participating. It is always nice to see that I am right and my partner mucked up. Just kidding + it wasn't such an awesome game anyway on the auction.

[whereagles]

I really don't see how you could have drove to 3-level on a moth-eaten suit.

If 2♥ always shows 6 cards, then I think pard should have done something. Otherwise (i.e. if it shows just 5) it's hard to blame him.

[PhilKing]

I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction?

Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.

[helene_t]

I might bid 1♥ on some 2425 17-count and obviously also with an 18-count with five hearts.

Could partner have a 3334 9-count without a diamond stop? In that case I would also bid 1♥ with a 1435 16-count.

If 2♦ is natural (I didn't think of that, but it makes sense) then 2♥ is forcing. I think this hand may just be worth a forcing 2♥ bid but it's borderline.

Without agreements I think I would bid 1♥. 2♥ can't be wrong but I wouldn't know if partner takes it as forcing or not. 2NT would not be unreasonable either.

In my own sci-fi system I still bid 1♥.

If you bid 2♥ there is no way partner is stopping below game with such a nice hand.

[gwnn]

Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.

[the hog]

PhilKing, on 2014-October-19, 09:17, said:

I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction?

Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.

1H would show about 17-19 with 5 cards. I think the given hand is too strong for 1H. I agree that after 2H North should raise to 3.

[helene_t]

gwnn, on 2014-October-19, 10:30, said:

Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.

Yeah p will mostly have 0-6 points, or 7 points without a 4-card major. So with 1-2 spades it is better to pass. But make the hand a king stronger.... Maybe we can just bid 1NT with that hand, not ideal, but it allows 1♥ to promise five.

[snillrik13]

Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. If you are interested in a playable Fantunes system visit www.fanfantunes.n.nu